53 replies to this topic

[Mind_Paralysis]

 

I have a hard time believing one can be motivated with full blown anhedonia. Motivation requires pleasure. I had the same mindset as you, and still do to be honest, except when I have "motivating thoughts" no energy, no dopamine comes out and it's like I'm always swimming against the current. I still do stuff because I have to and (also?) believe there's no meaning in life if you are average, but can't say I am motivated since I can't get my brain to care emotionally about anything. Socially, I can act completely normal without much effort expect with people that are not my age or don't share similar interests. So right now, almost everything I do aims in trying to get out of anhedonia. Once I make it. then I can continue with my life, and feel the beauty and meaning of this world once again. It won't be easy and most likely going to take a while. Good luck with quitting your addiction, do not fail.

 

I  have probably about 80-90% anhedonia. I do laugh a few times a year, but it is very rare. I haven't been able to cry for years, even though i try my hardest. I feel like if i am able to cry, it would be a great release for me.

 

I never felt rewarded after completing and achieving very good results in both my degrees.

 

Socially I can 'act' normal as well, but it feels very fake, and I hate the fact that it is not natural. 

 

If it helps, I've read about multiple people who acquired anhedonia via stress, and after 2-3 years, it went into remission. I'm yet to hear about anybody who smoked through teenage years while the brain was developing, and recovering.

 

Anyways, I won't fail, even if it takes me 4-5 years to feel normal. If i'm still like this after that long, I will try out ibogaine, or other similar substances that may aid me in the long-term. 

 

This is truly no way to live, and I would have killed myself a long time ago, except for I can't because it would destroy my mother who has tried her best to give me a good life. I wish you well in your journey to remission my friend.

 

 

Cannabinoids have been known to trigger symptoms of Schizophrenic Spectrum Disorder - psychosis is often the one everyone talks about, but I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that it can trigger negative symptoms and flat affect as well...

 

Have you ever considered that perhaps you have some variation on Schizoidal "Personality Disorder", or Schizotypal "Personality Disorder" (they're not PD's, and the whole label is a complete misnomer - hopefully the labels will change in the future) - they are both a form of mild schizophrenia, and some of them, as well as what's called "Schizophrenia Simplex" are considered to merely be different positions on the schizophrenic spectrum - a bit like how Autism is also a complex, non-uniform, highly varying disease.

 

Flat affect, anhedonia, difficulty deriving pleasure from socialising... these are actually aspects of Schizophrenia to an extent as well.

 

 

The fact that the symptom were triggered after Cannabis-abuse made me draw the connection here... have you considered anything like that as well?

 

 

In theory, something like Ondansetron, might then be useful. (a 5ht3-antagonist)
 

[Londonscouser]

I have certainly considered schizophrenia simplex as a possible cause of my symptoms.

 

It is difficult to be sure though, as certain negative symptoms do overlap with various other disorders...

 

Also, as I mentioned, I did notice a small but significant improvement in the symptoms upon abstinence. For instance, a higher degree of emotional intensity, pleasure derived from socialising and gaming.

 

It is a difficult one, but I do consider something along the schizo spectrum as a great possibility.

 

The thing is, the symptoms haven't got progressively worse over the years...if anything, I have seen improvements that have lasted since my last period of sustained abstinence.

 

Schizophrenia does run in my family, mainly my Uncles on my Father's side of the family.

[Deaden]

Hmm I know someone with the negative symptoms of schizophrenia, and no positive symptoms, but it was triggered by a psychosis. Did you have any? I assumed Londonscouser would have known if his apathy was caused by schizophrenia, or addiction. Reading this article, it doesn't seem uncommon for people to get blunted from long term addiction to cannabis: http://ns.umich.edu/...eward-over-time

Although since you have relatives with schizophrenia, there's a pretty good chance that's the cause of your anhedonia. You could consider NAC + Sarcosine then, or what Stinkorninjor mentioned.

Edited by Deaden, 13 November 2017 - 06:04 PM.

[Londonscouser]

Hmm I know someone with the negative symptoms of schizophrenia, and no positive symptoms, but it was triggered by a psychosis. Did you have any? I assumed Londonscouser would have known if his apathy was caused by schizophrenia, or addiction. Reading this article, it doesn't seem uncommon for people to get blunted from long term addiction to cannabis: http://ns.umich.edu/...eward-over-time

Although since you have relatives with schizophrenia, there's a pretty good chance that's the cause of your anhedonia. You could consider NAC + Sarcosine then, or what Stinkorninjor mentioned.

 

No I haven't ever experienced psychosis or delusions etc, no positive symptoms whatsoever.

 

Like I said, it's difficult for me to assess whether or not the symptoms I exhibit are a result of schizophrenia spectrum disorders or my addiction or even a combination of both.

 

If I had to put money on it, I would say the symptoms are a direct result of smoking excessive amounts of highly potent herbal cannabis during the years in which my brain was developing. However I could be wrong.

 

I've found quite a few cases of people who have experienced a very similar set of symptoms to what I exhibit. They all tend to be quite young and have smoked weed daily for years. Sadly barely any of them continue to post updates. There are also tons of cases of people who have been affected by other drugs such as antipsychotics, antidepressants, benzodiazepenes, cocaine, MDMA, amphetamines; a variety of people who exhibit symptoms such as lack of emotions and lack of pleasure. Many do go on to recover after several months - couple of years, whereas some do not.

 

It is quite disheartening to think that I may have developed negative symptoms of schizophrenia which will be with me for the rest of my life.

 

I've tried NAC, but I hated the taste and I didn't feel any different to be honest.

[hydrus]

I have certainly considered schizophrenia simplex as a possible cause of my symptoms.

 

It is difficult to be sure though, as certain negative symptoms do overlap with various other disorders...

 

Also, as I mentioned, I did notice a small but significant improvement in the symptoms upon abstinence. For instance, a higher degree of emotional intensity, pleasure derived from socialising and gaming.

 

It is a difficult one, but I do consider something along the schizo spectrum as a great possibility.

 

The thing is, the symptoms haven't got progressively worse over the years...if anything, I have seen improvements that have lasted since my last period of sustained abstinence.

 

Schizophrenia does run in my family, mainly my Uncles on my Father's side of the family.

 

if you are employed and have friends you likely do not have simplex or it is still in the very early stages..

Edited by hydrus, 13 November 2017 - 08:55 PM.

[MichaelTheAnhedonic]

 

I have certainly considered schizophrenia simplex as a possible cause of my symptoms.

 

It is difficult to be sure though, as certain negative symptoms do overlap with various other disorders...

 

Also, as I mentioned, I did notice a small but significant improvement in the symptoms upon abstinence. For instance, a higher degree of emotional intensity, pleasure derived from socialising and gaming.

 

It is a difficult one, but I do consider something along the schizo spectrum as a great possibility.

 

The thing is, the symptoms haven't got progressively worse over the years...if anything, I have seen improvements that have lasted since my last period of sustained abstinence.

 

Schizophrenia does run in my family, mainly my Uncles on my Father's side of the family.

 

if you are employed and have friends you likely do not have simplex or it is still in the very early stages..

 

 

I'm just hoping that the docs I will finally meet can lessen the negative symptoms. Probably they will put me on aripiprazole.

 

If it will improve the symptoms then I'll get good brain-health diet + neurogenesis supplements. 

Edited by MichaelTheAnhedonic, 13 November 2017 - 09:17 PM.

[Deaden]

Hmmm so I did some research, apparently the fact that you have some family relatives with schizophrenia only just puts you more at risk of developing that illness yourself compared to the general population, but you still have some pretty good stats of this not affecting you. According to the article I previously linked, I believe it's completely normal that you get anhedonia after years of smoking cannabis regularly. Also since abstinence seems to improve your symptoms, I think there's lower chance that you have schizophrenia. And even if you do, there's NAC+Sarcosine which is very promising, plus a bunch of other options don't worry it's treatable. NAC doesn't do anything alone against anhedonia it's not new, sarcosine might, but the best is to take both as they are synergistic in their action. Legit sarcosine is hard to find, so I'd recommend Profrontal if someone suffers from the negative symptoms: http://profrontal.com/testimonials/

Oh and, recent clinical trials of the use of stem cell therapy to treat/cure schizophrenia also seems very bright!

 

Anyway, I'm still kind of unsure on how to differentiate schizophrenics with a predominance in the negative symptoms, to people that got anhedonia from anything else. How to be sure schizophrenia isn't the problem? Is flat affect and poverty of thought/speech what makes the difference? It's tricky... flat affect is kind of a natural effect of anhedonia no? Or do they even have that when they are in a good mood? Like personally, my whole face can go blank and I'll have a monotone speech when I talk to people I don't want to talk to, or am feeling at my worse... but when I socialize with people I "like" (friends or girls) I will laugh, smile. have some elocution. Are schizophrenics always flat in their expression? And poverty of speech/thought, can I get an example from someone of what it would consist of? Hmm I wonder what a proper diagnostic evaluation of anhedonia from schizophrenia would be.

Edited by Deaden, 14 November 2017 - 01:15 AM.

[hydrus]

Anyway, I'm still kind of unsure on how to differentiate schizophrenics with a predominance in the negative symptoms, to people that got anhedonia from anything else. How to be sure schizophrenia isn't the problem? Is flat affect and poverty of thought/speech what makes the difference? It's tricky... flat affect is kind of a natural effect of anhedonia no? Or do they even have that when they are in a good mood? Like personally, my whole face can go blank and I'll have a monotone speech when I talk to people I don't want to talk to, or am feeling at my worse... but when I socialize with people I "like" (friends or girls) I will laugh, smile. have some elocution. Are schizophrenics always flat in their expression? And poverty of speech/thought, can I get an example from someone of what it would consist of? Hmm I wonder what a proper diagnostic evaluation of anhedonia from schizophrenia would be.

 

 

I think they have symptoms that are usually far more extreme than what most people with self-diagnosed flat affect usually have. Poverty of though/speech and flat affect that might seem extreme and would be obvious to any observer.

 

Self diagnosed anhedonics might seem normal and well adjusted in society so that only close friends and family members are aware of the problem.

 

I do not understand why people always think schizophrenia when it comes to anhedonia. Anhedonia happens in many different disorders and might be seen but is not limited to bipolar disorder, depression, personality disorders, even anxiety disorders and other non-psychiatric medical illnesses. Better consult a psychiatrist for a diagnosis. 

Edited by hydrus, 14 November 2017 - 07:11 AM.

[Londonscouser]

Hmmm so I did some research, apparently the fact that you have some family relatives with schizophrenia only just puts you more at risk of developing that illness yourself compared to the general population, but you still have some pretty good stats of this not affecting you. According to the article I previously linked, I believe it's completely normal that you get anhedonia after years of smoking cannabis regularly. Also since abstinence seems to improve your symptoms, I think there's lower chance that you have schizophrenia. And even if you do, there's NAC+Sarcosine which is very promising, plus a bunch of other options don't worry it's treatable. NAC doesn't do anything alone against anhedonia it's not new, sarcosine might, but the best is to take both as they are synergistic in their action. Legit sarcosine is hard to find, so I'd recommend Profrontal if someone suffers from the negative symptoms: http://profrontal.com/testimonials/

Oh and, recent clinical trials of the use of stem cell therapy to treat/cure schizophrenia also seems very bright!

 

Anyway, I'm still kind of unsure on how to differentiate schizophrenics with a predominance in the negative symptoms, to people that got anhedonia from anything else. How to be sure schizophrenia isn't the problem? Is flat affect and poverty of thought/speech what makes the difference? It's tricky... flat affect is kind of a natural effect of anhedonia no? Or do they even have that when they are in a good mood? Like personally, my whole face can go blank and I'll have a monotone speech when I talk to people I don't want to talk to, or am feeling at my worse... but when I socialize with people I "like" (friends or girls) I will laugh, smile. have some elocution. Are schizophrenics always flat in their expression? And poverty of speech/thought, can I get an example from someone of what it would consist of? Hmm I wonder what a proper diagnostic evaluation of anhedonia from schizophrenia would be.

 

Yeah I also read that schizophrenia is significantly more likely if its displayed in immediate family members as oppose to cousins/uncles/aunties etc.

 

It is really hard to differentiate between anhedonia associated with schizophrenia, and other disorders.

 

I believe I have some sort of poverty of speech/thought, however I also do think this is most likely related to the anhedonia itself...I think that the anhedonia results in a lack of creativity, imagination and intuition, which affects the way I naturally speak. 

 

That being said, over the years, I've altered the terminology I use...for example I'm more specific in my use of words, I'm also much more likely to think before I speak.

 

"Like personally, my whole face can go blank and I'll have a monotone speech when I talk to people I don't want to talk to, or am feeling at my worse... but when I socialize with people I "like" (friends or girls) I will laugh, smile. have some elocution." -

 

I am exactly the same, however I'm usually the latter in social interaction. I try to 'conform' to the social norms by consciously changing the tone of my voice, my non-verbal communication etc. It also helps that I have 18 years of natural social interaction which provides me with a decent foundation to seem normal to others. Its only with my father that I will show my true colours (monotony voice, indifference), I always put on an act with other people for fear of judgement/don't want to come across as weird or moody etc.

 

Do you find that symptoms are worse in the mornings ? or is that because I have a worse mood in the mornings ? .. I don't know anymore :(

 

I actually made a joke this morning and managed to make somebody laugh while I myself found it extremely funny. Not normal for me !

 

Anyways, thanks for the advice. I will certainly not smoke weed again, and hopefully I can tell you guys that I've improved.

[MichaelTheAnhedonic]

As for me I can still laugh and make some decent jokes. But most of the time my face is blank, poker face. It's weird because it's not constant, it's fluctuating - from stone face to joker-like face.

[Deaden]

Yeah I also read that schizophrenia is significantly more likely if its displayed in immediate family members as oppose to cousins/uncles/aunties etc.

 

It is really hard to differentiate between anhedonia associated with schizophrenia, and other disorders.

 

I believe I have some sort of poverty of speech/thought, however I also do think this is most likely related to the anhedonia itself...I think that the anhedonia results in a lack of creativity, imagination and intuition, which affects the way I naturally speak. 

 

That being said, over the years, I've altered the terminology I use...for example I'm more specific in my use of words, I'm also much more likely to think before I speak.

 

"Like personally, my whole face can go blank and I'll have a monotone speech when I talk to people I don't want to talk to, or am feeling at my worse... but when I socialize with people I "like" (friends or girls) I will laugh, smile. have some elocution." -

 

I am exactly the same, however I'm usually the latter in social interaction. I try to 'conform' to the social norms by consciously changing the tone of my voice, my non-verbal communication etc. It also helps that I have 18 years of natural social interaction which provides me with a decent foundation to seem normal to others. Its only with my father that I will show my true colours (monotony voice, indifference), I always put on an act with other people for fear of judgement/don't want to come across as weird or moody etc.

 

Do you find that symptoms are worse in the mornings ? or is that because I have a worse mood in the mornings ? .. I don't know anymore :(

 

I actually made a joke this morning and managed to make somebody laugh while I myself found it extremely funny. Not normal for me !

 

Anyways, thanks for the advice. I will certainly not smoke weed again, and hopefully I can tell you guys that I've improved.

 

Yeah honestly, socializing doesn't feel like a "flow" anymore, I too have to make a conscious effort every time I talk or act in a way to entertain. However, I learned pretty quickly and can fake the flow of a conversation so well I surprise myself. In fact people will say I'm hyper, well... I was already hyper before and loved being the center of the attention (not narcissist), but now it's just... weird how normal I can act for how fucked up I am inside. To be honest, I think I enjoy social interactions sometimes and may happem unconsciously if it's with people that interest me. "Enjoy" is a big word, maybe more like having weak pleasure, 5-10% of the response I'd get in terms of enjoyment compared to before my anhedonia, but I'll take it, it brings me some positivity and relaxes my mind a bit. I know the majority of people with anhedonia are unable to act normal and really avoid any interactions though... I get where they are coming from.

 

My mood is better in the mornings, but in our anhedonia group chat almost everyone else is saying they feel worse in the times after waking up just like you.

 

Concerning the negative symptoms of schizophrenia, I personally don't think I have that since I have better sense making explanations, with higher odds of those being the cause of my apathy. Although yeah, reading the negative symptoms online, anyone with anhedonia could relate to it regardless of what's responsible for their emotional numbness. I'm sure there might be quite a lot of schizophrenia misdiagnosis, or undiagnosed out there. Like "flat affect", I definitely have that when the conversation is not stimulating enough, and don't care about acting normal to a certain someone (usually with my family), but it's only natural when you are extremely unexcited... What I'm trying to figure out is if even when simple schizophrenics are in a good anhedonic mood, their face stays blank, and also if they have a hard time faking their emotional expressions. "Poverty of speech/ thought, that too could mean anything jeez... they need to be more specific.

 

Anyway that's good news about your comic enjoyment! Might mean you're making progress and that you're on the right path! Keep it up

 

As for me I can still laugh and make some decent jokes. But most of the time my face is blank, poker face. It's weird because it's not constant, it's fluctuating - from stone face to joker-like face.

You were diagnosed with schizophrenia if I remember correctly right? Can you describe in more details your flat affect? I really can't tell if the negative symptoms of schizophrenia are anhedonia, and symptoms that are direct causes of that anhedonia. How is your speech and thinking?

Edited by Deaden, 14 November 2017 - 01:18 PM.

[Deaden]

I think they have symptoms that are usually far more extreme than what most people with self-diagnosed flat affect usually have. Poverty of though/speech and flat affect that might seem extreme and would be obvious to any observer.

 

Self diagnosed anhedonics might seem normal and well adjusted in society so that only close friends and family members are aware of the problem.

 

I do not understand why people always think schizophrenia when it comes to anhedonia. Anhedonia happens in many different disorders and might be seen but is not limited to bipolar disorder, depression, personality disorders, even anxiety disorders and other non-psychiatric medical illnesses. Better consult a psychiatrist for a diagnosis. 

 

Are you making a guess? I only believe in evidence... but I get your reasoning

Also, I need far more than just a psychiatrist to get a diagnosis, I'll explain more tomorrow, or some other day why...

[hydrus]

 

I think they have symptoms that are usually far more extreme than what most people with self-diagnosed flat affect usually have. Poverty of though/speech and flat affect that might seem extreme and would be obvious to any observer.

 

Self diagnosed anhedonics might seem normal and well adjusted in society so that only close friends and family members are aware of the problem.

 

I do not understand why people always think schizophrenia when it comes to anhedonia. Anhedonia happens in many different disorders and might be seen but is not limited to bipolar disorder, depression, personality disorders, even anxiety disorders and other non-psychiatric medical illnesses. Better consult a psychiatrist for a diagnosis. 

 

Are you making a guess? I only believe in evidence... but I get your reasoning

Also, I need far more than just a psychiatrist to get a diagnosis, I'll explain more tomorrow, or some other day why...

 

 

 

what do you mean? guessing that it is common in other disorders as well?

 

what I meant is that people with untreated schizophrenia are fairly impaired usually, it is more than flat mood and anhedonia. They are homeless or unable to hold down a job, zero friends and relationships etc. The flal affect is severe and obvious to any outside observer.. not what most people here complain about.

 

People self-diagnose with schizophrenia because they try to come up with an explanation why they have flat moods etc. but anhedonia is really not limited to Depression or Schiz.

 

https://en.wikipedia...e_schizophrenia

 

They may appear shiftless, and some are accused of laziness. Few thoughts disturb their days, and they may seem quite content to lie in bed or sit in a darkened room all day. Occasionally some bizarre behavior or a fragmentary delusion may be observed. For the most part, however, these patients do little to attract any attention; some continue to live with aged parents; others pass from one homeless mission."^[2]

 

Edited by hydrus, 14 November 2017 - 02:01 PM.

[MichaelTheAnhedonic]

 

 

I think they have symptoms that are usually far more extreme than what most people with self-diagnosed flat affect usually have. Poverty of though/speech and flat affect that might seem extreme and would be obvious to any observer.

 

Self diagnosed anhedonics might seem normal and well adjusted in society so that only close friends and family members are aware of the problem.

 

I do not understand why people always think schizophrenia when it comes to anhedonia. Anhedonia happens in many different disorders and might be seen but is not limited to bipolar disorder, depression, personality disorders, even anxiety disorders and other non-psychiatric medical illnesses. Better consult a psychiatrist for a diagnosis. 

 

Are you making a guess? I only believe in evidence... but I get your reasoning

Also, I need far more than just a psychiatrist to get a diagnosis, I'll explain more tomorrow, or some other day why...

 

 

 

what do you mean? guessing that it is common in other disorders as well?

 

what I meant is that people with untreated schizophrenia are fairly impaired usually, it is more than flat mood and anhedonia. They are homeless or unable to hold down a job, zero friends and relationships etc. The flal affect is severe and obvious to any outside observer.. not what most people here complain about.

 

People self-diagnose with schizophrenia because they try to come up with an explanation why they have flat moods etc. but anhedonia is really not limited to Depression or Schiz.

 

https://en.wikipedia...e_schizophrenia

 

They may appear shiftless, and some are accused of laziness. Few thoughts disturb their days, and they may seem quite content to lie in bed or sit in a darkened room all day. Occasionally some bizarre behavior or a fragmentary delusion may be observed. For the most part, however, these patients do little to attract any attention; some continue to live with aged parents; others pass from one homeless mission."^[2]

 

 

 

 

We can say the same thing about someone in depression. If there's no pleasure, there's apathy. If there's apathy you only want to lie in bed or sit in a darkened room all day. And if there's apathy you stop caring so you do little to attract any attention. 

 

But I remember that 2 years ago when I was taking ethylphenidate I wanted to motivate my family to do something cuz I'm suffering. Now I mostly don't care and just waiting for another appointment.

 

Gosh, my life would be so FCKN GOOD if this shit didn't happened. It was too good, so life gave me this fckn shit...

 

And I'M NOT officialy diagnosed with schizo. Recently I've got Hashimoto's thyroiditis which is making everything worse. But it grabbed my attention a little cuz there's inflammation in this disease. Inflammation has been linked to many mental health problems, including anhedonia. When I'll arrive at the hospital I'll ask docs about checking inflammatory markers. 

 

Right now I feel like death...

[Mind_Paralysis]

 

 

I think they have symptoms that are usually far more extreme than what most people with self-diagnosed flat affect usually have. Poverty of though/speech and flat affect that might seem extreme and would be obvious to any observer.

 

Self diagnosed anhedonics might seem normal and well adjusted in society so that only close friends and family members are aware of the problem.

 

I do not understand why people always think schizophrenia when it comes to anhedonia. Anhedonia happens in many different disorders and might be seen but is not limited to bipolar disorder, depression, personality disorders, even anxiety disorders and other non-psychiatric medical illnesses. Better consult a psychiatrist for a diagnosis. 

 

Are you making a guess? I only believe in evidence... but I get your reasoning

Also, I need far more than just a psychiatrist to get a diagnosis, I'll explain more tomorrow, or some other day why...

 

 

 

what do you mean? guessing that it is common in other disorders as well?

 

what I meant is that people with untreated schizophrenia are fairly impaired *USUALLY*, it is more than flat mood and anhedonia. They are homeless or unable to hold down a job, zero friends and relationships etc. The flal affect is severe and obvious to any outside observer.. not what most people here complain about.

 

People self-diagnose with schizophrenia because they try to come up with an explanation why they have flat moods etc. but anhedonia is really not limited to Depression or Schiz.

 

https://en.wikipedia...e_schizophrenia

 

They may appear shiftless, and some are accused of laziness. Few thoughts disturb their days, and they may seem quite content to lie in bed or sit in a darkened room all day. Occasionally some bizarre behavior or a fragmentary delusion may be observed. For the most part, however, these patients do little to attract any attention; some continue to live with aged parents; others pass from one homeless mission."^[2]

 

 

 

You have to remember that the newer data supports the construct that Schizophrenia is a spectrum-disease - the people whom are homeless and heavily impaired are the equivalent of "Rain Man" * on the Autistic Spectrum.

 

Most people with Autism probably don't even qualify for Aspergers Syndrome - that's why they invented "Atypical Autism" - to catch the people whom are not impaired enough to qualify for any of the classic diagnosis - those people you generally won't notice the Autistic tendencies, unless you interact with them for a longer period of time.

 

The same is most likely true for Schizophrenia as well - some people merely have flatter affect or slightly more odd belief-systems than regular folks - they may be really into tarot-cards or "Reiki Healing" or they may be into conspiracy theories (slightly more paranoid than others). They may be fully functional otherwise, wife, family, a steady job - just like with the majority of people on the Autistic Spectrum.
 

The difference of course, being that if you're on the Schiz' spectrum, you will already be far, far more susceptible to unwanted effects from drug overdose - your mind will be a little bit more fragile towards certain drugs - you'll be a little bit easier to send off the deep end than your average Neurotypical.

 

 

*(I know the newer research on Rain Man revealed that he doesn't have Autism, but in the movie, which is the reference most people have, he is depicted as having severe Autism)

[Mind_Paralysis]

I have certainly considered schizophrenia simplex as a possible cause of my symptoms.

 

It is difficult to be sure though, as certain negative symptoms do overlap with various other disorders...

 

Also, as I mentioned, I did notice a small but significant improvement in the symptoms upon abstinence. For instance, a higher degree of emotional intensity, pleasure derived from socialising and gaming.

 

It is a difficult one, but I do consider something along the schizo spectrum as a great possibility.

 

The thing is, the symptoms haven't got progressively worse over the years...if anything, I have seen improvements that have lasted since my last period of sustained abstinence.

 

Schizophrenia does run in my family, mainly my Uncles on my Father's side of the family.

 

The fact that the symptoms have actually improved a bit is a very good thing to hear! = ) I will admit, that really does make it much less plausible that you have some type of "schizophrenic features".

 

It IS very unusual to have such a prolonged reaction of flat affect and anhedonia from Cannabis though... At least according to the studies on the subject which I have read - on the other hand, some of the meta-reviews I've seen my way, have been posted by people whom are avid Cannabis-users, and are advocating for how it's less dangerous than many other drugs.

 

I actually do think it's less dangerous than Alcohol, for the majority, but one should not forget the problem of neurodiversity, and how different the response to various drugs are.

 

 

Well, perhaps, if your response is wholly to Cannabis, it will be possible to revert it much quicker with some simple strategic use of a CB-antagonist? Most likely it's necessary to antagonise both receptors, since I believe THC is an agonist of both receptors.

 

https://en.wikipedia...ptor_antagonist

 

Might be an interesting Group Buy, a CB-antagonist, yes?

 

 

I took a refresher on the data, and the reviews on recuperation is not at all as dismissive of the possibility for sustained impairments as I had previously lead to believe... However, it doesn't seem clear-cut either - it doesn't appear to cause loss of brain-matter the way other compounds do though, such as Alcohol, MethAmphetamine or MDMA.

 

An Evidence Based Review of Acute and Long-Term Effects of Cannabis Use on Executive Cognitive Functions

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3037578/

 

Acute and Chronic Effects of Cannabinoids on Human Cognition—A Systematic Review

http://www.sciencedi...006322315010379

 

 

I notice that most of the evidence towards impairment is regarding Executive Function though... not affect or motivation states - which is the subject of this thread - the data seems to imply that you'll become more impulsive, MORE MOODY (i.e, less emotional control), and less able to plan and follow through on stuff - that IS a bit of a contrast to your state.

 

In order to explain the difference, one can explain it as such: Impaired Executive Function is believed to be involved in both Borderline Personality Disorder and the emotional instability seen in subjects with classical ADHD.
As such, impaired Executive Function should cause INCREASED irrationality and AFFECT - not the opposite... Well, if one prescribes to such a simplification, I guess. Schizophrenics obviously have tremendous executive deficits, yet they also present with quite flat affect, so it's obvious that the two can co-exist or are different aspects of Executive Function impairment.
 

[hydrus]

if you respond to cannabis you could try CBD oil, it is currently being researched as a treatment for schizophrenia and it gives you cannabis high like effects without the damaging hallucinogenic intoxication effects.

[Deaden]

Hey so I think I finally found a better explanation for my problems than depersonalization disorder... and it is "clouding of consciousness" aka brain fog. https://en.wikipedia...f_consciousness "Others may describe a spaced out" feeling. Sufferers compare their overall experience to that of a dream because as in a dream consciousness, attention, orientation to time and place, perceptions, and awareness are disturbed.". This is just one small part but I can relate heavily to all the rest as well.  "sufferers declare that they are awake but, in another way, not" Exactly how I feel! The problem with DP/DR was that I don't have any sense of unreality, nothing really feeling strange except I don't feel in the present. On top of that, my memory is severely disturbed as well. It's making it so that it's like I have no past, present, future. Adding my inability to feel pleasure... I am basically not living on this planet. Reading about brain fog, this sticks exactly to my experience of living. 

 

One thing I was and am almost sure about, is I have problems with oxygen flow. It explains my shortness of breath while making any small amount of physical effort, and light/hotheadedness that comes with it. May also explain my brain fog. Oh and I also found the proper term for my ACUTE confusion on drugs/ alcohol. It is toxic encephalopathy http://www.sciencedi...-encephalopathy Again, I'm convinced that's what I experienced three times... it is hell. I need and will ask for an EEG, oxygen blood test, check for inflammation, check for toxins in my brain, MRI to see if there's any tissue damage or cerebral edema (just a guess for the intense agony I experienced while just smoking weed with friends). Toxic encephalopathy may disrupt excitatory-inhibitory amino acid balance aka glutamate/gaba so may be the cause of my anhedonia... or not and and so it would most likely be inflammation/ chronic stress. No way they won't find anything wrong with everything I mentioned, then depending on the results, doctors can decide what they want to do. I'm finally able to put a link to everything.

 

Honestly, I better get a slightly competent doctor in the next month that makes things advance when I put his work on a plate, or am going to lose my hair. Three freaking three times I went to the ER for toxic encephalopathy, and was not given oxygen therapy, only ineffective pain infusions while I was screaming in agony. What diagnosis do they give me? Psychosis. I hate American doctors... I can promise you everything I did not have psychosis. It is their duty to diagnose me right when I suffer from a serious mental condition. My life is in their hands and such unprofessional-ism is unforgivable. After all the symptoms I described, why haven't they decided to give me an oxygen blood test??? I can't deal with this life... I have anhedonia, my motivation is at zero and since I feel no pleasure, any stress just kills me, so imagine what my enormously stressful living does to me. I'm just constantly getting tortured and have to survive on pure will power, but honestly I am only human, I will break sometimes and unleash my hate and frustration on people while feeling like complete shit and hopeless.Whatever, the world just wants me to die, no matter everything I do, my mother will say I just need to trust doctors while I can only afford to see one every month or two, which is of low quality and completely unhelpful. My dad that built his own company will tell me I need to go swim in the water to get oxygen in my brain when I complain about my problems... will say irrelevant stuff like go take a walk everyday which I can give you five very relevant reasons why it's a stupid advice considering my situation. Also, wants me to wait another FIVE MONTHS in the US while I continue with my classes to go back to France for a while where everything is covered and doctors are not useless, so "I prove to him I deserve it"?????? I am emotionally, psychologically, socially, mentally impaired, and the only people that can help me are my family, but apparently I'm too much stress or I don't know. Sorry...? My life is ten times worse, constant anhedonia. Yet, I have to research things so maybe I can get better if finally I'm treated right, but then I'll be told I'm a hypochondriac even though they refuse to listen to what I have to say because "I'm not a doctor"? If I'm not a doctor, then who is?? I don't see any. I'm so doomed honestly. I AM DONE WAITING, I NEED EMERGENCY TREATMENT!

Edited by Deaden, 15 November 2017 - 03:23 AM.

[Deaden]

Well sorry guys, I was in a really bad mood when I wrote that last post. Shouldn't have wrote anything. So I don't really think I'm helpless, and I'm not sure about toxic encephalopathy actually. Although I still think I have clouding of consciousness, and oxygen problem, but those should be fixable if I find the root of the issue... need to do some medical tests. Also, chronic stress remains what I believe caused my apathy. Anyway, I did some research yesterday, and I would like to share it with you. Maybe get your intake on it?

 

So, stress/ addiction/ trauma is associated with KOR activation in the medial prefrontal cortex which modulates excitatory transmission, and interacts with NMDA glutamate receptors. This creates a dysfunction in glutamate transmission, and so in brain circuits connectivity which affects the release of pleasure chemicals. KOR activation is also linked with significant reduction in BDNF expression (protein responsible for neuron growth) in the hippocampus and prefrontal cortex .This affects our brain capacity for neuro and synaptogenesis and making it much harder to heal naturally (not impossible).

 

We know high doses (not low) kappa antagonists can reduce apathy and anhedonia pretty significantly. I believe some individuals have kept their improvements while going off this class of ADs after staying months on it. One thing I am unsure about, is why quite a few people have described getting more numb on low dose naltrexone, there must be an explanation to it. Regardless, only in higher dosing I've read successful testimonials about LDN in treating apathy, and since the science is there, and some people get improvement from CERC-501 which has a similar mechanism of action, I don't think naltrexone should be taken out of option even if one got worse with this drug from innapropriate dosing. The problem with LDN is that it may be toxic to the liver, so regular medical checks on this organ would be needed. Unfortunetly, nalmefene which has a higher affinity to the kappa opiate system and is less toxic to the liver isn't approved as an anti-depressant yet, and can only be prescribed to alchoholics. I know Dr Hillel Glover is working on making nalmefene the first FDA approved medication in treating emotional numbness, but first he needs PTSD volunteers to take part in a clinical trial so that he can continue with the other applications of this drug, and especially in the treatment of apathy. If you suffer from core PTSD symptoms, please contact him, so that he can work with your psychiatrist. 

 

Kappa antagonists may be enough alone in curing anhedonia, but it takes time and there's the the liver problem... well it might not be so bad. Anyway. ketamine is very effective against apathy, but it only works temporarily and like Vere privated me, even after his 15 treatments, it wasn't enough to activate synaptogenesis. Perhaps yes, might need a medication with a similar mechanism of action that can be taken more regularly, or, I am theorizing that being on a kappa antagonist which would restore BDNF expression, and being on a drug that works on Mglur2/3 receptors might be very effective and rapid in restoring permanently functional connectivity to normal. Also, taking a kappa antagonist + having DeepTMS done in the vmPFC seems very promising as well. There's still CBT of course, but it is tricky and takes time since our ability for synapto and neurogenesis is low, and would need to avoid negative, rational thinking, plus stress at its maximum or it would make sure to perpetuate the anhedonia.

 

This would be for people that became numb as a result to trauma, stress, depression, or addiction. I'll make a post for people with schizophrenia or chronic inflammatory conditions some other time.

Edited by Deaden, 16 November 2017 - 02:03 PM.

[Deaden]

https://www.google.c...mbness&f=false 

 

"It should be emphasized that in the process of increasing the dose of opiate antagonist, any symptom associated with PTSD may worsen before it improves. As the dose of the drug is increased, patients will commonly experience increased feelings of emotional vulnerability. Some symptoms in some individuals may persist for a longer period of time before they reverse. This drug may make some individuals temporarily more numb, especially when administered to persons who are anxious. It will be understood by those skilled in this field that the dosage may be varied to accommodate individual needs, reactions or circumstances. Also, clinically obese individuals should not be administered the drug because they experience intensely adverse reactions of rage and/or anxiety at very low doses. In general, a significantly large dose increase is required to go from a good to a 100% no-numbness response." 

"The final dose to reverse the effect of numbing will be significantly higher than the dose used to precipitate withdrawal reactions in a narcotic addict. Opiate blockade in the PTSD individual preferably is maintained at a high dose level because endorphins are constantly being manufactured within the brain as part of a conditioned neurochemical response. Maintenance dosage is preferably continued for at least one year before a trial of gradual reduction is attempted. During that period, the individual should have shown an ability to consistently relate to significant others and to experience feelings rather than numbness."

 

"The emotional numbing itself may be associated with PTSD or any other psychopathologic condition including, but not limited to, depression, hypochondria, anxiety, a psychosomatic disorder and negative symptoms of schizophrenia. Moreover, the emotional numbness may be associated with any of various physical insults to the central nervous system, such as, but not limited to, closed head injuries and cerebral vascular accidents."

[Galaxyshock]

Going through 600mgs of DXM in course of 3-4 days seemed to reverse my anhedonia a lot. Suddenly also benzos (diazepam) seem to work for me again.

 

I didn't really trip on the stuff, I think about 200mg produced some thought distortation but it was at night time.

 

I initially wanted to try DXM to see if it actually does something for tolerance since it's effective NMDA-antagonist. Benzos haven't worked for me after the initial first few days of diazepam back in summer 2015. Even 50mg didn't do shit but now 20mg had me pleasantly sedated.

 

Didn't expect that I now seem to have lessened anhedonia, I enjoy music, social things and normal activities much more than in a long long time.

 

Will see if this lasts or if it's just some temporary window of better function.

[Deaden]

Most likely won't last, also, it has SNRI properties so becareful long term

[stefdude]

Has anyone tried any of this?

[Hip]

Just discovered that glucuronolactone (a natural ingredient in some energy drinks) noticeably improves my anhedonia. See this thread.