13 replies to this topic

[caliban]

Since our founding, this site has attracted individuals who are impatient for the state of medical consensus to advance and are experimenting with supplements, techniques and experimental compounds.

 

This has many pitfalls: first and foremost the risk to the individual, the flavour of chasing ‘magic’ that has always tainted the life-extension field, along with the dreadful folly of ‘testimonials’; the risk of generating the flawed impression that taking life extending supplements must somehow be ‘felt’ quickly; a turning away from the principles of scientific equipoise and the hard truths of evidence-based medicine.  

 

Nonetheless this self-experimentation goes on and has some aspects that are worth celebrating:  the intensive and personalised engagement with scientific evidence; the assumption of individual responsibility for health and wellbeing; the ongoing adventure of discovery that would not be possible without plenty of risk-takers.

 

To be clear: Faced with these perspectives, LongeCity as an organisiation maintains absolute neutrality. We do not in any way encourage or promote self-experimentation, nor do we condemn and suppress evidence of it.

 

We do however, wish that some ‘self experiments’ were more responsibly planned, conducted, and reported  with a view towards generating the most reliable dataset possible.

We have therefore set aside some potential funding to complement those experiments that have the potential to yield insights that could be of generalisable interest to the LongeCity community.

 

Generally we envisage the scheme to work as follows:

1-       An individual (the Subject) develops a supplement or other regimen based on an informed review of the literature, community advice and the available sources.

2-       The Subject develops a testing plan that assesses meaningful metabolic parameters at meaningful intervals.

3-       The Subject commences the regimen. The Subject pays for all supplies and the baseline test which must be published on LongeCity in annonymised form.  

4-       LongeCity can be approached to pay for a subsequent test. This does not entail an endorsement of the experiment but simply a desire to further asses some of the safety and efficacy parameters in question.     

 

 

If YOU are interested in participating, please comment below or contact us.  

[Zed]

I think this is a great idea. I would support even possibly going further and assisting with putting together a resource kit for

people who self experiment. Some kind of "best practice" case studies for example.

Very interested and happy to assist in any way.

[pamojja]

Generally we envisage the scheme to work as follows:
1-       An individual (the Subject) develops a supplement or other regimen based on an informed review of the literature, community advice and the available sources.
2-       The Subject develops a testing plan that assesses meaningful metabolic parameters at meaningful intervals.
3-       The Subject commences the regimen. The Subject pays for all supplies and the baseline test which must be published on LongeCity in annonymised form.
4-       LongeCity can be approached to pay for a subsequent test. This does not entail an endorsement of the experiment but simply a desire to further asses some of the safety and efficacy parameters in question.

 
Generally with a health issue and supplementing it develops less with a plan, but more as a trial and error. And further changing of health strategies with success or set backs trough new-onset diseases.

• - done. The whole regimen with some lab-tests strewn in cost my 450,- a month.
• - for me was more like bargaining with my GP, like in an oriental bazar, for getting most important lab parameters checked. And having to pay a few remaining out of my own pocket less regularly. In total 280 parameters over the course of 9 years. Many regularly, some once or twice only.
• - done. With remarkable results in reversing a 60% walking-disability from PAD and minor remissions: http://www.longecity...nal-remissions/
• - where I can find the cashier?

Just joking. Just as in my experience with the "win $100 for 'best regimen'", only paying members of Longecity have the probability to get the price.

Edited by pamojja, 02 December 2017 - 01:01 PM.

[Ph7]

Controlled experiments are the key. If its a stack, then best tried one ingredient at a time or focusing on one single added ingredient. Also dietary logs, as much info as possible. Alot is now possible with AI that can describe what the user is doing parsing useful info, like daily intake. OCR can read ingredient labels for daily dIet. That could be an app. we can already log many bio parameters with smart watches. Encouraging subjects to wear snart watches to monitor vital signs would promote safety. These are all just bits of ideas.

[Oakman]

How did I miss your year-old post Caliban?? What a generous idea.  I keep spreadsheet based recipes for stacks.  Over time, some help, others don't, and a few cause problems. In short, they do tend to morph, some are discarded, others reformulated, and new ones created. As pamojja says, one of the luxuries of self-experimenting is the ability to change if negatives (or positives) are discovered.

 

The biggest sticking point (no pun intended) in your idea is getting access to meaningful (?) metabolic parameter testing.  Given the quasi-scientific manner most ideas come about (your #1), what to test, and how, is at best a guessing game. In fact, even knowing what tests exist and their purpose is a major barrier.

 

As a result, I rely on subjective results and personal data I collect to gauge success or failure. Basically, how I feel and perform over time. I can measure daily and/or in real time HR, HRV, BP, exercise ability, aka, duration, strength and speed, plus any number of subjective parameters I choose. Obviously, any results only show some correlation to regimens, not causation, but they are more helpful than 'waiting to fail/die'.

[Mind]

This might be something that is promoted/managed again in the future, but for this year, as you know, we are instead promoting objective biomarker testing: https://www.longecit...gingbiomarkers/

 

Of course, it would still be great if you were to inform the community of your regimen and how your objective/subjective aging biomarkers changed over time.

[caliban]

please note that a version of the above initiative continues as part of our BASE collaboration   

[pamojja]

What were the outcomes of the 2017 collaboration?

[Mind]

What were the outcomes of the 2017 collaboration?

 

We paid for some testing for two years in a row. People reported and discussed their results in the Aging Biomarker forum. Now we want to work with OpenCures to get more people to share and discuss biomarker data. 

[pamojja]

People reported and discussed their results in the Aging Biomarker forum. Now we want to work with OpenCures to get more people to share and discuss biomarker data.

If you want more people to share and discuss, then why you keep the posts in a private group?

[Mind]

It is a member benefit for now.

 

Members get extra forum and messaging functionality. Members are also getting the first chance at OpenCures and testing, but we might consider other applicants at this stage as well, if they have a good study design.

[pamojja]

So honestely, you don't want more people to share and discuss. You just want to attract more paying members.

Edited by pamojja, 30 June 2021 - 05:48 PM.

[caliban]

So honestely, you don't want more people to share and discuss. You just want to attract more paying members.

 

 

Honestly, that would be poor economics as the testing support costs LongeCity more than the membership donation is worth  

 

The reason the initial results are posted privately is that we want encourage users to present their personal medical data in a controlled and supportive space, not force them to plaster it on the internet.

The same principle carries over to the OpenCures database where users can control what data to share with whom.     

[pamojja]

Difficult to reconcile more publicity with privacy. Also for anyone with malicious intent the data is easily enough accessible.

 

I'm not logical too, having all my tests (above 2500 datapoints) on an (evil) google-spreadsheet, but would only post screeshots of some markers at times in posts.

Edited by pamojja, 01 July 2021 - 08:01 AM.