24 replies to this topic

[smithx]

This is the latest popular article discussing largescale findings that aspirin strongly reduces risk of many cancers:

http://www.telegraph...study-suggests/

 

But I remember some discussions about why aspirin could also be bad. Can anyone summarize those concerns?

 

There's an increased risk of digestive tract bleeding, and an increased risk of brain hemorrhages / stroke, and perhaps some others I'm forgetting (please note them) but how increased and what's the overall risk increase or reduction, given these new data, for taking daily 81mg aspirin?

 

 

[Hebbeh]

If I remember correctly, I believe the bleeding risk is genetically dependant.

[Boopy!]

it isn't an issue.   If people are worried about side effects from this small amount of aspirin  (is often offered immediately at the ER for a stroke,   and is advised for patients prone to strokes since it STOPS blockage)   then they should stick to only substances like turmeric and ginger spices.    Some people have overly sensitive stomachs,   but overall small doses are in fact advised for even the elderly.

[Dorian Grey]

Don't know if aspirin disturbs the intestinal wall the same as it does the stomach, but if it does, I imagine the downside of leaky gut would largely outweigh the benefit.  

 

Interestingly, PPC (polyenylphosphatidylcholine) fixes the gastric problems caused by aspirin.  

 

http://www.encognitive.com/node/13977

 

Doses of aspirin as low as 30 mg suppress the production of protective prostaglandins in the gastric mucosa. In addition, aspirin's direct contact with the gastrointestinal tract interferes with the hydrophobic "non-wettable" properties that protect the underlying epithelium from gastric acid and other toxic substances

 

A study on experimentally induced gastric ulcers in rats (Dunjic BS, et al., 1993) showed that mucosal lesions were significantly reduced by a single dose of PPC given before or after the injury factor, which in this study was ethanol or an NSAID.

 

A recent clinical trial compared the GI effects of aspirin to those of aspirin complexed with PPC (Anand BS et al., 1999). Sixteen healthy subjects were given either ten doses of aspirin or ten doses of the aspirin/PPC complex over a 72 hour period. After a "washout" period, subjects were switched over to the other medication for a 72 hour period.

 

Researchers counted the number of gastroduodenal erosions in each subject. Those taking aspirin had an average of 8.75 erosions, while those taking the aspirin/PPC complex averaged only 2.81 erosions. The protective effect of PPC was most apparent in those who were most susceptible to aspirin injury, and did not interfere with the therapeutic activity of the aspirin.

Edited by Dorian Grey, 03 November 2017 - 10:07 PM.

[Bushi84]

And than again

 

Consequences of Coated Aspirin:

Q. My husband collapsed, unconscious, due to severe internal bleeding. He’d been taking two full-strength aspirin tablets as needed, on the advice of his doctor.

I was trying to protect his stomach, so I bought him enteric-coated aspirin. That just took the damage further down the digestive tract.

 

 

 

 

Usually am on a low dose of aspirin for a few days and than am a few days off just in case to protect my stomach. And so far, so good. 

The important thing is to listen to your body. 

[Boopy!]

Women used to chew on the same bark aspirin is based on.     They still do in poorer areas.    Aspirin is what I take for a migraine.   As a drinker with a healthy life otherwise,    I trust it far far more than Tylenol which is horrible for liver.    Hospitals were paid to prescribe this for years and KNEW how bad it is.    Look into this.  If pain is a problem I like aspirin compared to most other drugs BUT that is because I have a very healthy gut and worry about liver.    If you are the type to get acid reflux then aspirin is a strong,  strong acid.   So it makes sense it would work on oily skin or a pimple,    in a paste.    But if you are otherwise young and healthy,  I think your dosage is considered a low dosage.    It's great for a whole lot of other things,  but I take it for pain and considering how cheap it is,   it's pretty cool that it's a more harmless drug than sp many out thereI think - if i recall correctly --   it is considered a miracle drug for pennies by some docs.    I take ot  her meds I DO worry about more than aspirin,   which has been around for a loong time.   

[zorba990]

I use mineral salicylates as they are safer and have superoxide mimetic qualities.

Testing for drugs inhibiting the formation of gastric ulcers.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/7121015
West GB.
Abstract
"Copper salicylate has been shown to be an inhibitor of gastric lesions in rats induced by aspirin, indomethacin and cold stress whereas cimetidine was only effective against those produced by cold stress. The results are in line with those reported earlier for the anti-ulcer activity of sodium salicylate and metiamide respectively. On this basis, it appears that the animal model of stress-induced gastric lesions in the rat is the most suitable for testing the activity of new-antiulcer drugs."


Mimicking Superoxide Dismutase Activity Using Manganese & Copper Salicylates In Vitro
https://www.research...ylates_In_Vitro



http://www.heal-your...Salicylate.html
"The Schweitzer Formula

In addition to copper salicylate complexes also a salicylate complex with zinc and boron is a good healing remedy. This has been called the Schweitzer Formula, and is formed from zinc (oxide or carbonate), boron (boric acid) and salicylic acid. It has been used as an antibiotic, disinfectant, fungicide, and anti-inflammatory agent.

The Schweitzer Formula supposedly was developed 1915 in Germany and sold worldwide since 1920. In addition to any kind of infection or inflammation, it has been used in cancer treatment, to improve the immune response and blood oxygenation. Applied externally it is claimed to heal injuries and skin diseases, including acne, scarring varicose veins and varicose ulcers.

To make the Schweitzer Formula dissolve 9.2 g of salicylic acid, 2.1 g of boric acid and 2.7 g of zinc oxide or 4 g of zinc carbonate in 2 litres of hot water. You may get these ingredients from a pharmacist or supplier of fine chemicals and have these quantities weight out. However, it is sufficient to use approximate amounts. You may use 2 level teaspoons of salicylic acid and half a teaspoon each of boric acid and zinc oxide or one level teaspoon of zinc carbonate.

Use distilled or de-ionised water and a non-metal container. Heat for about an hour, and stir occasionally with a non-metal spoon until no more of the zinc oxide or zinc carbonate at the bottom of the container dissolves. Then decant or filter into a glass container and store in a dark and cool place. Any surplus of zinc oxide or carbonate that remains undissolved shows that all the boric acid and salicylic acid have been used up.

Originally Schweitzer Formula was sold as crystals. If you do want to crystallise the complex, then let the water evaporate very slowly in a flat non-metal tray covered with fine gauze. As a general rule, the slower the crystallisation, the bigger the crystals. Therefore, keep the tray undisturbed in a cool place. For quick crystallisation and smaller crystals you may expose the tray to direct sunlight. For use you may then dissolve the crystals again in 2 litres of hot water.

You may take this at the ratio of one tablespoon daily. The long-term use of copper or zinc should be balanced by using the other mineral as well. If internal remedies are used then zinc and copper should be taken with separate meals. As with copper salicylate I believe that also zinc-boron salicylate complex is safer and more effective than the long-term use of aspirin or other anti-inflammatory drugs.

Schweitzer Formula in high amounts has been used extensively in the healing system of Body Electronics. One tablespoonful of Schweitzer contains about 15 mg of zinc, 15 mg of boric acid or 2.5 mg of boron, and 70 mg of salicylic acid. As with copper salicylate, I believe that individuals sensitive to salicylates in food may not negatively react to Schweitzer Formula but that may need to be individually tested.

""

[mikey]

If I remember correctly, I believe the bleeding risk is genetically dependant.

 

It's not just bleeding, it's an increased risk of wet macular degeneration. One must weigh the cardiovascular and anti-cancer effects versus the potential for WMD.

 

"The most recent study found that those who used aspirin one or more times per week in the previous year were more than twice as likely to develop the "wet" form of age-related macular degeneration (AMD), a retina-damaging disease that is the leading cause of blindness in older adults. The study, which looked at 2,389 older Australians over a 15-year period, was published in  last month.

https://jamanetwork....article/1558450

A second study, published in JAMA in December, also found a link between aspirin use and AMD. In a study of 4,926 Wisconsin residents ages 43 to 86 who were followed for up to 20 years, researchers found that at the 10-year mark, aspirin users were about twice as likely to have developed wet AMD.

https://www.aarp.org...sease-link.html

[jack black]

i posted this in another thread:

 

I used to take low dose aspirin for many years and then I got gout. Aspirin is known to precipitate gout and it's no fun for sure. especially when the attack catches you traveling overseas and you suddenly can't walk anymore. Be aware.

 

[Darryl]

Irreversable inactivation of cyclooxygenase, an enzyme required for blood clotting. 

 

I ignored the warnings and tried to induce autophagy with high dose aspirin. When even after a day's abstention I could donate a unit of blood in 4 minutes, it dawned on me, "I drove here. If I were involved in an accident that cut an artery, I may have bled out before paramedics arrived." 

 

I still think there are good reasons for those who seek to limit their risk of adverse cardiovascular events to take a baby aspirin. I still do. But to attempt to capture other benefits of salicylates, I take ~g of magnesium salicylate offered as an OTC back ache medication. For those with unlimited budgets and a pliable longevity physician, prescription salsalate is the gold standard for medications that elevate plasma salicylate for extended periods, while not causing irreversible inactivation of COX.

[mikey]

 

If I remember correctly, I believe the bleeding risk is genetically dependant.

 

It's not just bleeding, it's an increased risk of wet macular degeneration. One must weigh the cardiovascular and anti-cancer effects versus the potential for WMD.

 

"The most recent study found that those who used aspirin one or more times per week in the previous year were more than twice as likely to develop the "wet" form of age-related macular degeneration (AMD), a retina-damaging disease that is the leading cause of blindness in older adults. The study, which looked at 2,389 older Australians over a 15-year period, was published in  last month.

https://jamanetwork....article/1558450

A second study, published in JAMA in December, also found a link between aspirin use and AMD. In a study of 4,926 Wisconsin residents ages 43 to 86 who were followed for up to 20 years, researchers found that at the 10-year mark, aspirin users were about twice as likely to have developed wet AMD.

https://www.aarp.org...sease-link.html

 

 

One report said that white willow bark doesn't cause the WMD that plain aspirin can. However, there was no citation accompanying the statement.

 

I am going to use enough WWB to equal the 81 mg of salcylic acid in a baby aspirin for a while and see how it "feels" for a while. 

[Nate-2004]

Aspirin is probably safe if only taken every once and a while. Some people may be more susceptible than others to the consequences of cox inhibition. I take it more than I should. 

 

Aren't there much better AMPK activators out there anyway? Metformin, exercise, fasting, berberine, resveratrol, etc? What about lithium?

Edited by Nate-2004, 21 November 2017 - 04:46 AM.

[mikey]

It only takes a little to upset my normally perfect Gi. I opt, for now, to try white willow bark.

[Darryl]

For those who wanted references for my last comment (on irreversible COX acetylation/inhibition) and the merits of salsalate as a Rx salicylate with better pharmacology/kinetics, I recommend:

 

Rainsford, K.D. ed., 2016. Aspirin and related drugs. CRC Press. (link to older edition)

 

High dose salsalate has gotten some attention as an adjunct antidiabetic medication in the past decade. Some work addresses effects at AMPK, which attracted my interest (though I don't take it, as its not terribly cost effective for a generic drug).

 

Jung et al, 2013. Salsalate and adiponectin improve palmitate-induced insulin resistance via inhibition of selenoprotein P through the AMPK-FOXO1α pathway. PLoS One, 8(6), p.e66529.

Ford et al, 2015. Metformin and salicylate synergistically activate liver AMPK, inhibit lipogenesis and improve insulin sensitivity. Biochemical Journal, 468(1), pp.125-132.

 

But, this may not be the whole story:

 

Smith et al 2016. Salsalate (salicylate) uncouples mitochondria, improves glucose homeostasis, and reduces liver lipids independent of AMPK β1. Diabetes, 65(11), pp.3352-3361

 

[Dorian Grey]

My girlfriend is 10 years post menopausal and I'd been bugging her to get her ferritin checked.  It was 37, which surprised me as I must donate blood just to keep mine from climbing into triple digits, which occurs in around 12 months if I don't get bled regularly.  My red meat, alcohol and tobacco are probably responsible as all are associated both with iron accumulation and negative health effects.  

 

She regularly takes an aspirin product for her frequent headaches and I've read aspirin causes GI micro-bleeds that keep iron accumulation in check.  Many of the health benefits of aspirin are quite similar to the benefits of iron homeostasis.  Reduced cancer and heart disease, lower insulin resistance and diabetes and help keeping fatty liver from turning to NASH.  

 

Statins are supposed to lower ferritin too, which may be the primary mechanism for their effect at reducing cardiac events in those who've previously had them.  

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3673278/

 

Don't suppose anyone has taken a serious look at the possibility this little recognized side effect of aspirin/statin therapy may be what provides the benefit, but this would certainly be revolutionary.  

 

http://ajcn.nutritio...t/74/2/219.full

 

Curcumin & Quercetin are helpful with iron homeostasis too, and this may be the primary benefit from these supps. I'll stick with bloodletting, curcumin & quercetin myself, and leave the aspirin and statins to to the rest.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 21 November 2017 - 06:44 PM.

[Mind]

 

If I remember correctly, I believe the bleeding risk is genetically dependant.

 

It's not just bleeding, it's an increased risk of wet macular degeneration. One must weigh the cardiovascular and anti-cancer effects versus the potential for WMD.

 

"The most recent study found that those who used aspirin one or more times per week in the previous year were more than twice as likely to develop the "wet" form of age-related macular degeneration (AMD), a retina-damaging disease that is the leading cause of blindness in older adults. The study, which looked at 2,389 older Australians over a 15-year period, was published in  last month.

https://jamanetwork....article/1558450

A second study, published in JAMA in December, also found a link between aspirin use and AMD. In a study of 4,926 Wisconsin residents ages 43 to 86 who were followed for up to 20 years, researchers found that at the 10-year mark, aspirin users were about twice as likely to have developed wet AMD.

https://www.aarp.org...sease-link.html

 

 

When I have time, my hobby is to drill down into medical studies because the vast majority are poorly conducted or non-reproducible. Some have bad math. Could someone help me out with this one : https://jamanetwork....article/1558450

 

2389 subjects in the study.

257 people were regular aspirin users

2132 were non-apsirin users

63 people developed AMD

The rate of incidence in non-users was 3.7%. The rate of incidence in aspirin users was 9.3%

 

3.7% of 2132 (non-users) is approximately 79...MORE than the number of people reported to have gotten AMD (63).

 

Am I missing some sort-of statistical adjustment?

 

Further down in the paper it says

 

 

Incident rate of 2.2% non users, 2.9% occasional users, 5.8% regular users

 

Which doesn't seem to match what was displayed in the abstract. 47 out of 2132 non-users getting AMD, 22 out of 257 users getting AMD.

Edited by Mind, 21 November 2017 - 10:34 PM.

[Mind]

Anyone want to take up the challenge of deciphering the numbers? I am probably just mis-interpreting the statistical representation.

[nhenderson]

 

 

If I remember correctly, I believe the bleeding risk is genetically dependant.

 

It's not just bleeding, it's an increased risk of wet macular degeneration. One must weigh the cardiovascular and anti-cancer effects versus the potential for WMD.

 

"The most recent study found that those who used aspirin one or more times per week in the previous year were more than twice as likely to develop the "wet" form of age-related macular degeneration (AMD), a retina-damaging disease that is the leading cause of blindness in older adults. The study, which looked at 2,389 older Australians over a 15-year period, was published in  last month.

https://jamanetwork....article/1558450

A second study, published in JAMA in December, also found a link between aspirin use and AMD. In a study of 4,926 Wisconsin residents ages 43 to 86 who were followed for up to 20 years, researchers found that at the 10-year mark, aspirin users were about twice as likely to have developed wet AMD.

https://www.aarp.org...sease-link.html

 

 

When I have time, my hobby is to drill down into medical studies because the vast majority are poorly conducted or non-reproducible. Some have bad math. Could someone help me out with this one : https://jamanetwork....article/1558450

 

2389 subjects in the study.

257 people were regular aspirin users

2132 were non-apsirin users

63 people developed AMD

The rate of incidence in non-users was 3.7%. The rate of incidence in aspirin users was 9.3%

 

3.7% of 2132 (non-users) is approximately 79...MORE than the number of people reported to have gotten AMD (63).

 

Am I missing some sort-of statistical adjustment?

 

Further down in the paper it says

 

...

 

Which doesn't seem to match what was displayed in the abstract. 47 out of 2132 non-users getting AMD, 22 out of 257 users getting AMD.

 

 

I'm no statistician, but the article and abstract are oddly written.  

Basically, 2 things are going on here:

• if you look at table 2 they say that they could not ascertain the dosing status of  242 patients. So they are using a base of 1524 non users with a cumulative incidence of 2.2%. 
• Second, they are making a distinction among Three groups regular users, non-regular users and  non-users. The 3.7% is for people who take aspirin occasionally.

[Skyguy2005]

The major flaw of aspirin is that it isn't Ginkgo Biloba. Besides that, it's perfect.

[TheFountain]

The major flaw of aspirin is that it isn't Ginkgo Biloba. Besides that, it's perfect.

Cab you explain this statement?

[Peatson]

I take 75mg coated Aspirin every other day along with Berberine 1200mg every day (natural metformin), Resveratrol every day, Astaxanthin 10mg every day (can also affect your stomach) and Melatonin 300mcg every night.

 

Have no worries with stomach issues like some have reported here. Just don't go heavy! Aspirin has a wide variety of amazing benefits, systemic protection, anti-cancer, cardioprotection and liverprotection. 

 

https://www.scienced...55041311930018X

 

[TheFountain]

I take 75mg coated Aspirin every other day along with Berberine 1200mg every day (natural metformin), Resveratrol every day, Astaxanthin 10mg every day (can also affect your stomach) and Melatonin 300mcg every night.

 

Have no worries with stomach issues like some have reported here. Just don't go heavy! Aspirin has a wide variety of amazing benefits, systemic protection, anti-cancer, cardioprotection and liverprotection. 

 

https://www.scienced...55041311930018X

 

I take baby Aspirin every single day, the uncoated variety because I have read research indicating the coated type does not work as well. 

 

Berberine I have and WAS taking but once I read that it could increase LONG QT interval I stopped it and ordered some Pyridoxamine instead. Besides Berberine, the latter has the best research on blood sugar control without major side effects. 

[Peatson]

I take baby Aspirin every single day, the uncoated variety because I have read research indicating the coated type does not work as well. 

 

Berberine I have and WAS taking but once I read that it could increase LONG QT interval I stopped it and ordered some Pyridoxamine instead. Besides Berberine, the latter has the best research on blood sugar control without major side effects. 

 

Interesting, just wondering, why not just take Metformin?

[TheFountain]

Interesting, just wondering, why not just take Metformin?

 

Okay so, I have been in possession of a lot of Metformin for the past 5 months, but have not taken it. I got the 500 mg extended release kind. But I have been reluctant to take it because I wanted to start out lower dosed.  So, I am going to be ordering some 250 mg non-ER stuff that I might even cut in half so that my initial intro dose is only 125 mgs. 

 

My A1c over the past 2 years has been a consistent 5.1 so I would only be taking it for prevention really. 

[kurt9]

If I remember correctly, I believe the bleeding risk is genetically dependant.

 

I consider the bleeding of benefit. It lets me get rid of excess Iron without having to donate blood (because I take a compound that may make my blood unacceptable for transfusion purposes).