9 replies to this topic

[Jigoku]

22 y.o male here. So I have pretty bad dp/dr. I am a firm believer that dp/dr is ultimately caused by an accumulation of unprocessed emotions and traumatic memories. And the major part in curing it is to process these traumatic memories. I am stuck in chronic dissociation which makes it impossible to make any progress in therapy. So, I'm wondering what you guys would recommend would help me to stop dissociating. 

 

supplements I'm currently taking:

10k IU vitamin D

rainbow one men's multivitamin

omega 3 fish oil

garden of life men's daily probiotic

curcumin

vitamin b12

 

Substances I've tried:

 

Shrooms: .2g~.5g - Can usually get me out of dr. Took .17g one time and it fully got me out of dp/dr. Usually have symptoms of feeling cold, tired, anxious, and I usually feel I'm sick the next day. 

                  1.5g - Completely out of dp/dr. Had a 10minute laughing fit which was followed by sobbing. 

                  3g - Completely out of dp/dr. Bad trip. Voices telling me, "face the truth!", "kill yourself",. I unconsciously took my pants off and my hand would keep reaching for my dick. My body was frozen and I could barely stop myself from masturbating. Heard voices from family and friends telling me, "Just do it!". This lasted for about 10 minutes I think. After that I had my wallet out which had $15 in it and I kept yelling, "only 15 dollars? seriously? I'd rather die." In my head I heard voices of my mom screaming, "I'm sorry, I'll pay you back! I'll fix everything!" During this time I also remember feeling like I was doomed to a lonely, miserable life which made me extremely suicidal. 

 

MDMA: unknown dose - Still dissociated. Felt sociable and anxiety free. Felt love and connection toward family, friends, and the world and generally at peace. I thought to myself, "is this what love feels like?"

 

Phenibut: .25g ~ 1.8g - honestly not much of an effect other than a slight mood lift. 

 

CBD isolate: 30mg - I felt slightly more relaxed but this was after the first time taking it. IMO it's too expensive, atleast for canadians.

 

Substances I'm considering:

 

sarcosene

l theanine

vitamin B complex

noopept

lions mane mushroom

5HTP

N-acetylcysteine

propanolol

phenylpiracetam

modafinil

alpha gpc

coq10

calcium

Zinc

magnesium

low dose melatonin

bacopa monneiri

rhodilea rosea

ayahuasca retreat

Edited by Jigoku, 10 November 2017 - 07:43 AM.

[Mind_Paralysis]

How about none of the substances above?

 

And seriously... what where you thinking with Psilocybin (shrooms)?? Most hallucinogenics are also dissociatives and can cause DP/DR! God-damn man... you're lucky to be alive!

 

Anyways... enough of my ranting - I do wish you well and that you shall find some kind of relief.

 

Check out the data regarding the glutamatergic and opioidergic networks and DP/DR - we've got multiple DP/DR threads on here, and I believe I have mentioned it, and posted links and references there.

 

In essence, there are two potential substances which could be of use, perhaps preferrably in combination:

 

 

Lamotrigine (glutamate modulator)

CERC-501 (kappa antagonist)

 

There are of course other kappa antagonists with potential effects on DP/DR, but CERC-501 is the one I recommend.

You could potentially also use high-dose Menthol prior to going to bed - it's a short-acting Kappa-agonist - such drugs usually cause intense dysphoria and near suicidal mood... however, since you take it, perhaps with a sleeping-aid, you would SLEEP OFF the acute effects, and when you wake up in the morning, your brain will have responded by DOWN-regulating your kappa-receptors, leading to a form of secondary kappa-antagonism.

Just make sure you're unconscious when the wave hits you... or you'll regret it, big-time.

[Jigoku]

seriously? why nothing? What about the common ones like magnesium, zinc, calcium, vitamin b complex?

[Jigoku]

I've already ordered sarcosine and I asked my psychiatrist about prescribing me low dose naltrexone and he said he would consider it.

[Mind_Paralysis]

I've already ordered sarcosine and I asked my psychiatrist about prescribing me low dose naltrexone and he said he would consider it.

 

I should probably have been clearer in my last post - supplements like the ones you mentioned as the most common, are bound to be useful for general health, but they won't affect DP/DR.

 

Good to hear that your Dr. may prescribe you Naltrexone! However, in order to get the effects on DP/DR, you can't really use Low-dose... the Kappa-antagonistic effects of Nalt only becomes visible when using at medium to high dosage.

 

However, then you'll also get depression from the MU/DELTA antagonism, hence... you must combine it with BUPRENORPHINE!

 

https://en.wikipedia...hine/naltrexone

 

It's a dangerous game though... and if you have been known to abuse ANY other sort of drug in the past, you will most likely fail to use the combo responsibly and correctly... If you purchase Buprenorphine illegally, that is.

 

Talk to your Dr. about the combo, and about how to get a potential ratio correct, to cause primarily kappa antagonism - it's unlikely that he'll have the balls to prescribe it, or that the authorities will allow it anyway, but the slim chance he would, is worth it.

[Deaden]

Yeah Stinkorninjor is right, naltrexone only becomes good for anhedonia and DP in high doses. Although I think all prescribed kappa antagonist on the market as of today are toxic on the liver. But don't get discouraged, just do regular medical check ups on that organ. Also I think, but I'm not sure maybe someone here could confirm it, that after a while you can discontinue this class of AD and still keep the improvements. Nalmefene is the best tho in terms of efficiency and safety, but unfortunately It's not approved for anything else than treating alcoholism as of yet.

 

Interesting about menthol tho, I know kappa agonist are bad on the long term, but would smoking some menthol cigarettes maybe give me a preview of how the other side looks like?

[Jigoku]

How about none of the substances above?

 

And seriously... what where you thinking with Psilocybin (shrooms)?? Most hallucinogenics are also dissociatives and can cause DP/DR! God-damn man... you're lucky to be alive!

 

Thats weird.. shrooms always temporarily relieve my symptoms of dpdr. Are they just bad in the long run due to a down regulation of 5HT2A receptors? Sorry, I'm a complete newbie in the field of pharmacology. I kept coming across terms like 5HT and GABA and had no clue what they were, so I've just recently started studying it. Do you know any good sources to learn the basics? Also, isn't unprocessed trauma the major factor in people with dpdr? I thought that hallucinogens were known to be used for healing past trauma meaning that they would help people with dpdr.

[Mind_Paralysis]

 

How about none of the substances above?

 

And seriously... what where you thinking with Psilocybin (shrooms)?? Most hallucinogenics are also dissociatives and can cause DP/DR! God-damn man... you're lucky to be alive!

 

Thats weird.. shrooms always temporarily relieve my symptoms of dpdr. Are they just bad in the long run due to a down regulation of 5HT2A receptors? Sorry, I'm a complete newbie in the field of pharmacology. I kept coming across terms like 5HT and GABA and had no clue what they were, so I've just recently started studying it. Do you know any good sources to learn the basics? Also, isn't unprocessed trauma the major factor in people with dpdr? I thought that hallucinogens were known to be used for healing past trauma meaning that they would help people with dpdr.

 

 

Well, from what I've read, hallucinogens appear to cause both Psychosis and DP/DR - however, that was honestly mostly because of my studies of NMDA-antagonists, and not of the serotonin-agonists, which cause different sorts of hallucinations.

 

A couple of studies imply that Psilocybin (hallucinogenic constituent in shrooms) does indeed cause DP/DR.

 

The Effects of the Preferential 5-HT2A Agonist Psilocybin on Prepulse Inhibition of Startle in Healthy Human Volunteers Depend on Interstimulus Interval

https://www.nature.c...rticles/1301324

 

psilocybin (115, 215, 315 μ/kg) produced an altered state that was characterized by derealization and depersonalization phenomena, affective changes, thought disorder, and perceptual alterations.

 

 

It also goes on to say that generally these changes were not persistent, but that's usually true for people taking NMDA-antagonists as well.

 

An interesting note in the study is how it was done in order to figure out some of the results of previous tests had shown that Psilocybin either improves nervousness and startle-ness, aka anxiety, or worsens it - there seems to be dose-dependent effects here... I suppose it's a bit like SSRI's, which are secondary serotonin-agonists? Depending on the dose, they can actually help with DP/DR - hence why they're prescribed, but also why some whom use them for OTHER purposes, such as anxiety or depression, report that SSRI's can actually cause DP/DR symptoms (usually transitory though).

 

5-HT modulation of dopamine release in basal ganglia in psilocybin-induced psychosis in man--a PET study with [11C]raclopride.

Changes in [11C]raclopride BP in the ventral striatum (from Psilocybin) correlated with depersonalization associated with euphoria.

 

(the above study only mentions how DP/DR was a quick transitory state on the way towards true Psychosis though, admittedly)

 

 

This semi-big study of case-studies from many years does imply that there's a connection between hallucinogenic use and DP/DR:

Feeling Unreal: A Depersonalization Disorder Update of 117 Cases.

http://psycnet.apa.o.../2003-08389-003

"The most common immediate precipitants of the disorder were severe stress, depression, panic, marijuana ingestion, and hallucinogen ingestion..."
 

 

Finally, here are some anecdotal reports of how some people have ended up with DP/DR after using Psilocybin and other serotonin-agonists (one of them was admittedly an avid CB-smoker while he was taking Psilocybin though):

https://www.reddit.c...ied_psilocybin/

 

http://www.dpselfhel...enic-mushrooms/

 

 

In some sense, I was wrong, I over-simplified things - but I wouldn't recommend you use hallucinogens or dissociative's any more, because there's no proof that they help, and there IS some proof that they can make it worse.

 

 

EDIT: Jesus f***ing christ... I just put an HOUR into this post!! An hour... reading studies and finding notes and stuff on the connection between hallucinogenic compounds and DP/DR... I care WAY too much about proving stuff! Well, at least I learned something in the process.

Edited by Stinkorninjor, 15 November 2017 - 06:17 PM.

[Jigoku]

Thank you for taking so much time to answer my post.

I can see now that I should stay away from hallucinogens. Out of curiosity.. what do you think about iboga/ibogaine for dp/dr? Iboga is a weak 5ht2a agonist and I have heard both positive and negative stories. To me it seems like a heavy gamble. 

 

http://www.dpselfhel...-treatmentcure/

http://www.dpselfhel...ic/33612-iboga/

https://www.reddit.c..._what_saved_my/

 

Thank you for taking so much time to answer my post.

I can see now that I should stay away from hallucinogens. Out of curiosity.. what do you think about iboga/ibogaine for dp/dr? Iboga is a weak 5ht2a agonist and I have heard both positive and negative stories. To me it seems like a heavy gamble. 

 

http://www.dpselfhel...-treatmentcure/

http://www.dpselfhel...ic/33612-iboga/

https://www.reddit.c..._what_saved_my/

 

[Mind_Paralysis]

Thank you for taking so much time to answer my post.

I can see now that I should stay away from hallucinogens. Out of curiosity.. what do you think about iboga/ibogaine for dp/dr? Iboga is a weak 5ht2a agonist and I have heard both positive and negative stories. To me it seems like a heavy gamble. 

 

http://www.dpselfhel...-treatmentcure/

http://www.dpselfhel...ic/33612-iboga/

https://www.reddit.c..._what_saved_my/

 

Thank you for taking so much time to answer my post.

I can see now that I should stay away from hallucinogens. Out of curiosity.. what do you think about iboga/ibogaine for dp/dr? Iboga is a weak 5ht2a agonist and I have heard both positive and negative stories. To me it seems like a heavy gamble. 

 

http://www.dpselfhel...-treatmentcure/

http://www.dpselfhel...ic/33612-iboga/

https://www.reddit.c..._what_saved_my/

 

I'm glad you appreciated it and found it insightful! = )

 

I'd say Ibogaine is MORE DANGEROUS than either Psilocybin or LSD! Because not only is it a serotonin-agonist, it's also an NMDA-antagonist, and to top it all off, it's a mid-range KAPPA agonist!

 

So, you've got three different ways to induce DP/DR, at the SAME time! That drug looks hella' dangerous to me - liquid Psychosis in a needle!

 

Kappa antagonism, the opposite, is actually even undergoing research for the treatment of DP/DR, and there are actually a few testimonies online for various such substances, which implies efficacy.

 

So yeah... Stay away from Ibogaine.