182 replies to this topic

[koschei]

Well , I ordered Spermidine from LZR labs. Didn’t arrive yet. Does anyone have experience with this lab?

[Turnbuckle]

Well , I ordered Spermidine from LZR labs. Didn’t arrive yet. Does anyone have experience with this lab?

 

 

You can get actual spermidine from Amazon.

[zorba990]

What us the current thinking on the c18 purity / sources of stearic acids? Im a little leary of glycerol monostearate...

Edited by zorba990, 05 June 2019 - 10:04 PM.

[ta5]

Biogerontology. 2019 Jun 11.

Some naturally occurring compounds that increase longevity and stress resistance in model organisms of aging.

Gómez-Linton DR1, Alavez S2, Alarcón-Aguilar A3, et al.

Humans and other organisms show age-related signs of deterioration, which makes aging an interesting process to study. In the present work, we review the anti-aging evidence of several of the most promising natural compounds. Quercetin, rapamycin, resveratrol, spermidine, curcumin or sulforaphane administration increase longevity and stress resistance in model organisms such as yeasts, nematodes, flies and mice. Even more, rapamycin, resveratrol, and curcumin are currently in preclinical tests on the Interventions Testing Program of the National Institute on Aging due to their encouraging results in model organisms. The potential mechanisms underlying the beneficial effects of these compounds are briefly described.

PMID: 31187283

 

Full article is on sci-hub.

Spermidine is a polyamine, which contains several cationic groups in its structure. Because of this, it easily interacts with negatively charged molecules such as nucleic acids and lipids (Minois 2014). Due to this property, polyamines play a role in specific cellular processes such as the DNA transcription to RNA and RNA translation to proteins, apoptosis, cell differentiation, proliferation and survival (Minois et al. 2014).

 

Some polyamines are naturally found in animals, and it has been proven that when they get older, the content of many of them decreases. Furthermore, administration of exogenous spermidine increases lifespan and healthspan in yeast, worms, flies, and mice, in part by activating autophagy. Therefore, polyamines may play an essential role in the regulation of the aging process (Madeo et al. 2010; Madeo et al. 2017).

 

In addition to protecting genome stability, spermidine also has anti-inflammatory, antioxidant and autophagy-stimulating properties (Douki et al. 2000; Belle ́ et al. 2004; Soda et al. 2013), the latter probably being the most critical mechanism by how spermidine increases lifespan and healthspan (Morselli et al. 2009).

 

In yeast, spermidine supplementation increases the chronological lifespan of cells up to four times, compared to untreated cells, as well as increasing their resistance to thermal stress and oxidative stress (Madeo et al. 2010). In other aging models such as C. elegans and D. melanogaster, a positive relation between spermidine administration and stress resistance has been reported (Eisenberg et al. 2009, Minois et al. 2012). Spermidine supplementation has been shown to modulate the redox state and reduce protein oxidation, increasing the number of free thiol groups in serum proteins. This effect is related to the activation of autophagy (Eisenberg et al. 2009; Madeo et al. 2010).

 

Mice administered with polyamines, including spermidine, from 24 to 88 months showed a marked reduction of some aging signs such as pro-inflammatory molecules, pathological changes and alterations in DNA methylation associated with age, as well as mortality risk in aged mice (Soda et al. 2013).

 

The administration of spermidine late-in-life to pre-aged male and female C57BL/6 J mice showed a significantly extended median lifespan by ~ 10% as compared to the control group. This study revealed that spermidine treatment in mice ameliorates hypertrophic remodeling of the aged heart and blocks age-related changes in cardiomyocyte composition and functionality as well as enhanced diastolic function in old mice. These activities were related to activation of cardiac autophagy, mitophagy, and mitochondrial respiration (Eisenberg et al. 2016).

 

 

Edited by ta5, 13 June 2019 - 11:20 PM.

[Woody42]

As has been mentioned lots of foods have this with lentils being rather high as well as mushrooms.

Ok mushrooms may not have near as much per gram as wheat germ but when you also consider that

they unlike wheat germ are very low in calories and may have something else to aid brain functioning

they may be a very choice.    https://www.scienced...90312103702.htm

 

[GABAergic]

anyone found good source of pure spermidine? ive been chugging wheat germ for a while with no benefits, im pretty sure food is too complex full of all types of things and spermidine might be too low bioavalable when mixed with so many things. considering taking it by itself in high dose before food. might be worth it

[GABAergic]

any updates on the people using spermidine. experiences and such, hopefully some new sources etc.

[GABAergic]

thanks.

[FWP]

Well , I ordered Spermidine from LZR labs. Didn’t arrive yet. Does anyone have experience with this lab?

 

I asked LZR labs for the spermidine content per serving and they replied 1mg. Did you feel any benefit as it seems quite a small amount?

[koschei]

I asked LZR labs for the spermidine content per serving and they replied 1mg. Did you feel any benefit as it seems quite a small amount?

[koschei]

Well, I feel just more energized, but I’m not sure if it’s just because of spermidine, cause I also started with mitoQ at the same time.

[Decimus]

Really great paper on the benefits of spermidine, especially in regards to aging:

https://science.scie...9/6374/eaan2788

Quite amazing the myriad of health benefits and different mechanisms of action, including the inhibition of MTORC1 with no apparent inhibition of MTORC2 and the activation of AMPK:


The protein deacetylase Sirtuin 1 inhibits (97) whereas cytosolic acetyl-CoA and EP300 promote the activity of the autophagy-inhibitory mechanistic target of rapamycin complex 1 (mTORC1) (17). Indeed, spermidine and several other CRMs cause mTORC1 inhibition (7, 17, 18) and activate phosphorylation of 5′ adenosine monophosphate–activated protein kinase (AMPK) (17), which antagonizes mTORC1 at the functional level and may further facilitate autophagic response to these CRMs.


I’ve been taking it for years. I would rank it as one of the top 2 or 3 supplements available. I’ve quite honestly been a bit amazed at the general lack of interest in it from this community, especially as much less impressive supplements like NMN and NR get so much attention. Probably has something, in part, to do with its name and the lack of commercialization of a marketable product.

[Andey]

I’ve been taking it for years. I would rank it as one of the top 2 or 3 supplements available. I’ve quite honestly been a bit amazed at the general lack of interest in it from this community, especially as much less impressive supplements like NMN and NR get so much attention. Probably has something, in part, to do with its name and the lack of commercialization of a marketable product.

 

  How much do you take and how often?

[GABAergic]

decimus, we have already figured out spermidine is pretty good for us. its not about finding more and more reasons to take it, but where to get a decent source and finally start taking it is what bothers me, and i assume others as well. so far, i found few limited sources, very expensive vendors and no good reviews of them at all! if this stuff is so good, it should be more popular and more widely sold by different companies right? not sure why that is not the case! i mean, i guess at the end ill just spend a lot of money on a gram but i wish there was a way to test how good quality it is. if there was an actual way of asking someone taking it before i do and report on quality and what they experience. why arent more popular companies out there getting on this though, ill never understand. ill probably msg few of them and ask about supplying this to the public

Edited by GABAergic, 09 July 2019 - 01:35 AM.

[Woody42]

I am somewhat confused. I have seen a couple articles showing the spermidine content of soy beans

as about 200mg/kilo . I have also read that it's much higher in the fermented soy bean product natto 

but the only figures I have seen about the concentration in natto weren't much higher  heck one report

while talking about it being much higher in natto reported it being in the 75-124 mg per kilo range ?  So

anyone know just how high it is in natto ?   And does fermenting weatgerm raise it's spermidine concentration

if so how much?

 

 

[Daniel Cooper]

This paper implies that the spermidine content of natto is about half that of soybeans (207mg/kq) which suggests a range of about what you are reporting.  Note that they report a very wide range of content (190 - 680 nmol/g), so you could get a much lower spermidine content depending on the actual natto you are consuming.
 
Polyamine Content of Ordinary Foodstuffs and Various Fermented Foods
 

Note that the data is in nmol/g rather than mg/kq.

 

Wheatgerm is still the king at 243mg/kg as far as I can tell.

 

BTW - the numbers reported for cheese look way low.  That may reflect the actual varieties of cheeses they tested.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 10 July 2019 - 08:21 PM.

[Woody42]

Dr. Rhonda Patrick  and I  am paraphrasing somewhat made a comment about it being "orders of

magnitude higher in natto "   when compared to mushrooms and don't mushrooms come in at about

40 to 80mg per kilo ?   Well perhaps she made a little error there ? 

[Decimus]

How much do you take and how often?

Recently, I have been taking approximately 50mg every day.

[Woody42]

I have seen a couple of references to a spermidine  rich extract of fermented wheatgerm. Does

fermenting wheatgerm make it have more spermidine.  And could if being from fermented wheatgerm

somehow make it more active ? The reason I ask is like in this study where an extract was used they

got some good results in human subjects using just 1.2mg a day and I thought the average diet ranged

from about 4 to 20 mg anyway so how could 1.2mg make much diference ?         https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5807086/

 

[Daniel Cooper]

anyone found good source of pure spermidine? ive been chugging wheat germ for a while with no benefits, im pretty sure food is too complex full of all types of things and spermidine might be too low bioavalable when mixed with so many things. considering taking it by itself in high dose before food. might be worth it

 

 

I think you need to ask yourself what sort of benefits you are expecting.  

 

I'm not sure that you'd be able to feel an upregulation of autophagy, certainly not in the short term.  What's you're looking to do is ameliorate certain generally age related pathologies  (cardio vascular disease, dementia, etc.).  

 

My expectation is I'm not really going to feel that.  I'm looking more for a long term payoff rather than a short term boost.

[Iporuru]

Recently, I have been taking approximately 50mg every day.

 

What's your source of supplemental spermidine?
 

[GABAergic]

What's your source of supplemental spermidine?
 

 

yeah i have been asking this too a lot of times with no answers. someone posted one source on amazon for 5 grams being 90 dollars or so. thats insane! its probably not going to be any cheaper elsewhere, but at least i need to find a source people can claim its good quality and it works for them. the amazon one, there is no review on it at all!

[Woody42]

Here is another and it offers it in 1g and 5 g sizes. Looks like 1 gram will set you back $33 

and i don't know  how much shipping would be.  And as was pointed out earlier LZR  has it 

too I think it's only about $39   for about 40  capsules having a whopping 1mg per serving

wow what a deal !          

 

 

 

 

https://www.scbt.com...midine-124-20-9

[Oakman]

I have seen a couple of references to a spermidine  rich extract of fermented wheatgerm. Does

fermenting wheatgerm make it have more spermidine.  And could if being from fermented wheatgerm

somehow make it more active ? The reason I ask is like in this study where an extract was used they

got some good results in human subjects using just 1.2mg a day and I thought the average diet ranged

from about 4 to 20 mg anyway so how could 1.2mg make much diference ?         https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5807086/

 

These are good questions, I can't find answers. Nevertheless, I make my own fermented wheat germ with a 24 ferment, then turn the resulting 'soup' into brownies to hopefully get chocolaty spermidine. I have it with coffee in the afternoon, or for breakfast.

 

The FWG sold commercially has anti-cancer claims and they have a patent on the process. Whether it enhances spermidine content is unknown as far as I can tell. I wish I knew. For example, in the study you link, they only say 'FWG extract', nothing about fermented.

[APBT]

I mixed 5g 99% Spermidine into about 43ml distilled water, so the total volume is about 50ml. It disperses well. I'm keeping it in a dropper bottle in the fridge. It's about 5mg/drop.

 

I'm taking 20mg per day for the last couple days. I haven't noticed anything, and I don't expect to. I'll stay at this dose for a week or so before increasing it.

 

Are you using the RPI product?

Did it arrive as a powder or a liquid?

Did you use store bought distilled water?

Did you filter your solution?

Did you sterilize the dropper bottle?

[ta5]

Are you using the RPI product?
Yes
Did it arrive as a powder or a liquid?
Liquid
Did you use store bought distilled water?
Yes
Did you filter your solution?
No
Did you sterilize the dropper bottle?
No

I’ve been taking 50mg per day for a couple months. I don’t notice anything.

Edited by ta5, 12 July 2019 - 05:40 PM.

[GABAergic]

Here is another and it offers it in 1g and 5 g sizes. Looks like 1 gram will set you back $33 

and i don't know  how much shipping would be.  And as was pointed out earlier LZR  has it 

too I think it's only about $39   for about 40  capsules having a whopping 1mg per serving

wow what a deal !          

 

 

 

 

https://www.scbt.com...midine-124-20-9

 

thats not good source. you cannot buy directly from chemical companies. otherwise i can find dozen of sources if that was the case :(

[ta5]

This may not mean anything, but it's not bad news anyway:

 

Aging (Albany NY). 2019 Jul 24.

The metabolomic signature of extreme longevity: naked mole rats versus mice.

Viltard M#1, Durand S#2,3, Pérez-Lanzón M2,3,4, st al.

The naked mole-rat (Heterocephalus glaber) is characterized by a more than tenfold higher life expectancy compared to another rodent species of the same size, namely, the laboratory mouse (Mus musculus). We used mass spectrometric metabolomics to analyze circulating plasma metabolites in both species at different ages. Interspecies differences were much more pronounced than age-associated alterations in the metabolome. Such interspecies divergences affected multiple metabolic pathways involving amino, bile and fatty acids as well as monosaccharides and nucleotides. The most intriguing metabolites were those that had previously been linked to pro-health and antiaging effects in mice and that were significantly increased in the long-lived rodent compared to its short-lived counterpart. This pattern applies to α-tocopherol (also known as vitamin E) and polyamines (in particular cadaverine, N8-acetylspermidine and N1,N8-diacetylspermidine), all of which were more abundant in naked mole-rats than in mice. Moreover, the age-associated decline in spermidine and N1-acetylspermidine levels observed in mice did not occur, or is even reversed (in the case of N1-acetylspermidine) in naked mole-rats. In short, the present metabolomics analysis provides a series of testable hypotheses to explain the exceptional longevity of naked mole-rats.

PMID: 31346149

[mikey]

Never ask.  Just do.

 

 

I'd try to make a purchase but I won't be ready to try that one for a couple of months.  In any case I suspect they are just covering their ass.  Lawyers you know.

 

I agree, Daniel. Most of the time I've had to order this type of product to be delivered to my business address, because I've been denied in trying to order a research ingredient from home.

 

I just revisited spermidine, since I hadn't employed it in quite a while. It's potential benefits for the cardiovascular system are attractive - worth continuing to research.

 

I just bought 5 grams of 99% purity (RPI Research Products) from Amazon for $93.99 plus shipping on June 22, 2019. 

I note that after it arrived at my home, RPI sent a note that told me to return it to them, as they can't sell to homes, only businesses. I had previously had spermidine sent to my business address, which is a large facility that I've used to receive "lab research" products. So far, no one has come knocking at my door about it.

[Turnbuckle]

 

I note that after it arrived at my home, RPI sent a note that told me to return it to them, as they can't sell to homes, only businesses. I had previously had spermidine sent to my business address, which is a large facility that I've used to receive "lab research" products. So far, no one has come knocking at my door about it.

 

That's weird. For a while they had a different rule for stuff going through Amazon, and now the rule seems to be that they will pretend they can't sell it to you. If they really cut people off, that will be too bad. Not for me, especially, as I stocked up a while back.  I can't take resveratrol without spermidine, which totally eliminates the joint pain I'd otherwise get, and resveratrol is great as a senolytic.