14 replies to this topic

[Forever21]

Is this supplement worth taking or should one stay away from it as much as possible?

 

If it's okay/good to take, what's the deal with the "tocopherol" "tocotrienol" and other variations in the market? What should one take?

[Dorian Grey]

Vitamin-E is the most commonly deficient "essential" vitamin in the American diet (over 90% deficient / see attached pdf below), so this is certainly something worth paying attention to. 

 

Studies of those taking high doses of synthetic form alpha-E have shown unfortunate results regarding prostate cancer and longevity, so synthetic alpha-E might be something to avoid.  

 

I can't help but believe "natural" form E with "mixed tocopherols" is not only harmless, but beneficial; but there aren't a lot of studies with this formulation published as the minor toco's have only recently been recognized as important.  

 

The tocotrinol aspect is interesting.  I alternate my natural form E with mixed tocopherols with a few tocotrinols (Jarrow Toco-Sorb) every few days.  

 

Essential vitamins are "essential" by nature, so if this is a common deficiency, I want to address this.  I feel natural form E with mixed tocopherols is the best way to go.  I've tried several "High-Gamma" E formulations (current fad), but these make me feel like crap (GI distress) for hours after taking them.  Don't know what this is all about, but I don't like them.  

 

More isn't always better, & I choose the 200 IU natural form E (400 IU is typical dose) with mixed toco's for my routine supp. 

 

Jarrow brand "Famil-E" contains all the tocopherols and tocotrinols in natural form.  I take this once a week or so, but notice my GI issues with this high-gamma formulation when I do.  Getting the entire spectrum is important enough, and my symptoms aren't all that adverse.  Others have said they have no trouble with high-gamma formulations, so this (Jarrow Famil-E) http://www.jarrow.co...uct/292/Famil-E may be worth trying.  

Attached Files

•  Vitamin-E Most Common Deficiency.pdf   200.13KB   11 downloads

Edited by Dorian Grey, 04 December 2017 - 10:06 AM.

[Believer]

Helps with nerve pain. I have self-induced penile nerve pain and vitamin E "complex" helps a lot whereas niacinamide does not.

[Forever21]

Vitamin-E is the most commonly deficient "essential" vitamin in the American diet (over 90% deficient / see attached pdf below), so this is certainly something worth paying attention to. 

 

Studies of those taking high doses of synthetic form alpha-E have shown unfortunate results regarding prostate cancer and longevity, so synthetic alpha-E might be something to avoid.  

 

I can't help but believe "natural" form E with "mixed tocopherols" is not only harmless, but beneficial; but there aren't a lot of studies with this formulation published as the minor toco's have only recently been recognized as important.  

 

The tocotrinol aspect is interesting.  I alternate my natural form E with mixed tocopherols with a few tocotrinols (Jarrow Toco-Sorb) every few days.  

 

Essential vitamins are "essential" by nature, so if this is a common deficiency, I want to address this.  I feel natural form E with mixed tocopherols is the best way to go.  I've tried several "High-Gamma" E formulations (current fad), but these make me feel like crap (GI distress) for hours after taking them.  Don't know what this is all about, but I don't like them.  

 

More isn't always better, & I choose the 200 IU natural form E (400 IU is typical dose) with mixed toco's for my routine supp. 

 

Jarrow brand "Famil-E" contains all the tocopherols and tocotrinols in natural form.  I take this once a week or so, but notice my GI issues with this high-gamma formulation when I do.  Getting the entire spectrum is important enough, and my symptoms aren't all that adverse.  Others have said they have no trouble with high-gamma formulations, so this (Jarrow Famil-E) http://www.jarrow.co...uct/292/Famil-E may be worth trying.  

 

 

Jarrow Toco-Sorb and Jarrow Famil-e.

 

Got it thanks.

[Dorian Grey]

The Famil-E already has the same tocotrinols as Toco-Sorb, along with the entire E family.  I add Toco-Sorb to my E with mixed tocopherols when I'm not taking Famil-E.

 

I don't take Famil-E daily as sometimes high-gamma formulations make me feel a bit punky.  Don't know why I have this problem as no one else has reported trouble with high-gamma supps.  

 

http://www.longecity...amma-vitamin-e/

 

Famil-E will cover all the bases quite well.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 06 December 2017 - 01:33 AM.

[dazed1]

Make sure you add at least 20g sesame seeds (whole) with the tocotrienols.

[recon]

Make sure you add at least 20g sesame seeds (whole) with the tocotrienols.

Why is that?

[timar]

In 2018, we still know too little about forms of vitamin E other than alpha-tocopherol to give any legitimate, evidence-based recommendations regarding their intake from supplements. If anyone tells you otherwise, it doesn't speak for his or her expertise and should be met with scepticism.

 

We don't even know what an optimum diatray intake ratio should look like. All we know is that a Mediterranean Diet, which is high in alpha-tocopherol (from olive oil, nuts and whole grains) but relatively low in gamma-tocopherol, is far superior to known dietary patterns high in gamma-tocopherol, such as the Standard American Diet drenched in gamma-tocopherol-rich soy and corn oil. Of course, that doesn't tell us anything about the particular effect of tocopherols in those dietary patterns.

 

However, there is a line of research suggesting pro-inflammatory effects of gamma-tocopherol, with alpha-tocopherol exerting an opposite, anti-inflammatory effect. This effect is most pronounced in the lung tissues and therefore particularly relevant for asthmatics and people suffering from COPD. They should abstain from taking high-dose mixed or high gamma-tocopherol supplements.

 

With regard to tocotrienols... we know next to nothing about their long-term metabolic effects, except that compared to tocopherols, they are poorly absorbed and rapidly catabolized, particularly if accompanied by high doses of tocopherols. Hence, if you decide to supplement with tocotrienols, don't take them with other high-dose vitamin E supplements. It doesn't even help to take them some hours apart - as soon as your tocopherol levels rise, your body will get rid of the tocotrienols.

 

My recommendation for a general anti-aging program is to avoid high-dose vitamin E supplements (i.e. more than 100 IU or 66 mg) regardless of the form, as there is a growing body of evidence suggesting negative effects from high levels of vitamin E (mostly alpha-tocopherol, but there a good reasons to assume other forms would have the same effects), quenching signaling ROS and negating beneficial hormetic effects from exercise. However, a low dose of supplemental vitamin E - once or twice the RDA - would ensure an optimum intake under almost any cirumstances and is likely to have a net beneficial effects for most people, particularly for those eating a less-than-optimal diet.

 

 

Edited by timar, 07 December 2017 - 08:21 PM.

[timar]

Another red flag concerning gamma-tocopherol is raised by a recent study based on NHANES cohort data, which found that every mcg/dl increase in gamma-tocopherol serum levels was associated with a reduced leukozyte telomer length by 0.33 base pairs, corresponding to about 3 additional years of biological aging for the highest quartile.

Edited by timar, 07 December 2017 - 09:28 PM.

[dazed1]

So how would you explain the amazing skin, hair, and overall effect i get when i take ~ 50-100mg tocotrienol?

 

I shave with one slide, instead of having to use like 10 repetitive moves.

Edited by dazed1, 08 December 2017 - 03:28 PM.

[Dorian Grey]

Thanks so much for your great contribution to this thread timar.  I'm going back to my low dose alpha with mixed tocopherols, which I understand contain some, but minimal gamma.  

[Forever21]

In 2018, we still know too little about forms of vitamin E other than alpha-tocopherol to give any legitimate, evidence-based recommendations regarding their intake from supplements. If anyone tells you otherwise, it doesn't speak for his or her expertise and should be met with scepticism.

 

We don't even know what an optimum diatray intake ratio should look like. All we know is that a Mediterranean Diet, which is high in alpha-tocopherol (from olive oil, nuts and whole grains) but relatively low in gamma-tocopherol, is far superior to known dietary patterns high in gamma-tocopherol, such as the Standard American Diet drenched in gamma-tocopherol-rich soy and corn oil. Of course, that doesn't tell us anything about the particular effect of tocopherols in those dietary patterns.

 

However, there is a line of research suggesting pro-inflammatory effects of gamma-tocopherol, with alpha-tocopherol exerting an opposite, anti-inflammatory effect. This effect is most pronounced in the lung tissues and therefore particularly relevant for asthmatics and people suffering from COPD. They should abstain from taking high-dose mixed or high gamma-tocopherol supplements.

 

With regard to tocotrienols... we know next to nothing about their long-term metabolic effects, except that compared to tocopherols, they are poorly absorbed and rapidly catabolized, particularly if accompanied by high doses of tocopherols. Hence, if you decide to supplement with tocotrienols, don't take them with other high-dose vitamin E supplements. It doesn't even help to take them some hours apart - as soon as your tocopherol levels rise, your body will get rid of the tocotrienols.

 

My recommendation for a general anti-aging program is to avoid high-dose vitamin E supplements (i.e. more than 100 IU or 66 mg) regardless of the form, as there is a growing body of evidence suggesting negative effects from high levels of vitamin E (mostly alpha-tocopherol, but there a good reasons to assume other forms would have the same effects), quenching signaling ROS and negating beneficial hormetic effects from exercise. However, a low dose of supplemental vitamin E - once or twice the RDA - would ensure an optimum intake under almost any cirumstances and is likely to have a net beneficial effects for most people, particularly for those eating a less-than-optimal diet.

 

 

So in practical terms, this would be a no-go: http://www.jarrow.co...ct/292/Famil-E ? Because (1) high gamma (2) has tocotrie (3) mixed.

 

Same goes for this one http://www.jarrow.co...t/274/Toco-Sorb ? Because (1) tocotries are poorly absorbed (2) the alphas are just going to negate tocotries

 

If you are to pick up one or two Vit E supplements on iHerb, which one would you go for?

Edited by Forever21, 08 December 2017 - 04:57 PM.

[pamojja]

 

In 2018, we still know too little about forms of vitamin E other than alpha-tocopherol to give any legitimate, evidence-based recommendations regarding their intake from supplements.

 

Evidence-based medicine most of the time only looks at one nutrient at a time. It therefore hardly will ever be able to give sound recommendations in the known of synergistic/antagonistic effects in supplementation.

 

 

However, there is a line of research suggesting pro-inflammatory effects of gamma-tocopherol, with alpha-tocopherol exerting an opposite, anti-inflammatory effect. This effect is most pronounced in the lung tissues and therefore particularly relevant for asthmatics and people suffering from COPD. They should abstain from taking high-dose mixed or high gamma-tocopherol supplements.

 

As a walking-talking lab rat I would want to report, that I have been using alpha- and other tocopherols in combination since 9 years (about 340/310 mgs of each). 2012 I suffered the whole year a chronic bronchitis, which also earned me a COPD 1 diagnosis. After that year no symptoms remaining.

 

 

With regard to tocotrienols... we know next to nothing about their long-term metabolic effects, except that compared to tocopherols, they are poorly absorbed and rapidly catabolized, particularly if accompanied by high doses of tocopherols.

 

Same with Gamma-tocopherols. We know that serum levels drop sharply with high alpha-intake. But not by how much this drop is off-set by concomitant gamma-intake. Nor what either means. (Rapid catabolization could also mean better utilization)

 

 

... which found that every mcg/dl increase in gamma-tocopherol serum levels was associated with a reduced leukozyte telomer length by 0.33 base pairs, corresponding to about 3 additional years of biological aging for the highest quartile.

 

The higher gamma-tocopherol serum levels most likely are a surrogate marker for processed food intake. And therefore not really telling what happens if supplemented without all the processed foods.

Edited by pamojja, 09 December 2017 - 11:02 AM.

[dazed1]

 

Make sure you add at least 20g sesame seeds (whole) with the tocotrienols.

Why is that?

 

 

Sesamin which is in sesame seeds, potently increase toco absorption, and retention.

[Skyguy2005]

Honestly the mediterranean diet is low in meat and higher in fish which is a big plus for me. We have the Japanese diet, Okinawa diet too, et cetera that are low in meat *and* high in fish.

 

It makes sense to me: Eat humans: Kuru, Eat meat: Some people got neurodegenerative diseases. Eat seafood: Nobody got such diseases. For me, mediterranean diet is just evidence of "eat stuff that's not like you, so the aging and bad proteins of what you eat doesn't pass onto you".