36 replies to this topic

[melanthi0s]

It's quite a leap to assume that NMDA-related excitotoxicity was the cause of your episode.

First of all, per the studies, NMDA receptors are involved, but are NOT the primary mechanism of action - and NMDA activation is a small component, at best.

What you describe is quite likely due to cholinergic effects from the racetam-like effects of Noopept.

Noopept's main two mechanisms of action are:

1) BDNF increase

2) racetam-like acetylcholinesterase inhibition

 

If you were taking ALL of those other supplements AND quickly boosted your Noopept dosage, you likely experienced a sudden increase in cholinergic activity - that leads to parasympathetic symptoms such as bradycardia, confusion, changes in blood pressure, "pins and needles", and various other problems.

THAT is likely what you experienced - not NMDA excitotoxicity.

 

I know that everyone is different...but, still, I have people all over the spectrum of dosages and dosage changes tolerate Noopept without any problems (everything from 10 mg - 100 mg).

So, while this may have "pushed you over the edge", I seriously doubt that Noopept was your problem.

You're taking tons of other substances in a cholinergic stack that is somewhat redundant.

 

Noopept is a high impact (type II) positive allosteric modulator of AMPA receptors (AMPAR PAM). Inducing BDNF expression is a consequence of its action on AMPA receptors.

 

High-impact AMPAR PAMs can cause neurotoxicity at high doses.

 

Many people can megadose Noopept safely, but if your glutamate homeostasis has been impacted by downregulation of GABA or dopamine receptors (MAOIs, amphetamines, benzodiazepines will do this) then it's not impossible that excitotoxicity may result.

Edited by melanthi0s, 07 November 2020 - 10:41 AM.

[Amira L.]

Wow, I know you said you weren't here for sympathy but man that sucks! I hope you are able to find some relief and get your life back on track. Best of luck!

[Delton]

I heard that how people absorb noopept varies enormously. You will absorb more sublingually. I generally take 5mg sublingually. I've read of some people getting effects from 1mg. Most bottles suggest 10mg.  So 25+ mg is a large dose. 

That said I'm skeptical of all racetam derivatives. I don't know anyone who got long lasting cognitive or productivity gains from any racetam or noopept.  A friend of mine gave me a bottle and I was experimenting with it mainly for the neuroprotective effects, not the putative nootropic ones.  

[melanthi0s]

Any substance that protects neurons may be neurotoxic above a certain threshold; "the dose maketh the poison".

 

Noopept is a high impact AMPAR PAM, which may provoke glutamate excitotoxicity in some cases. It also activates HIF-1, which causes the brain to act as if it is hypoxic, which may result in induction of apoptosis.

 

"Neuroprotective" is a marketing term; it is not clear that protecting neurons is necessarily a good thing in all cases. Promotion of growth of some neurons at the expense of others may result in imbalances in the organism as a whole. Autism may be the result of overgrowth and overconnectivity. People have reported individuals experiencing autism-like symptoms after Noopept use which persist after discontinuation.

 

Any substance that promotes neuroplasticity and neurogenesis may lead to loss of function as neurogenesis promotes forgetting of old memories and behaviours and replacement with new memories and behaviours. Enhancing forgetting in an individual with a fear response that inhibits learning could be catastrophic.

 

It is possible that many nootropic substances work by a hormesis effect of inducing minor toxicity to induce regeneration. The problem with this in human beings is that the "lower" parts of the brain and nervous system are not so good at repairing themselves compared to the "higher" parts, and the "lower" parts are important for many of the boring day-to-day activities that humans need to do. Neurodegeneration with age may be associated with the senses failing, so the higher parts of the brain atrophy from not having enough information to process; receiving hearing aids may improve dementia symptoms, for example.

Edited by melanthi0s, 06 December 2020 - 04:00 PM.

[Delton]

Any substance that protects neurons may be neurotoxic above a certain threshold; "the dose maketh the poison"....

 

 

That is really interesting, thanks for that. I actually did not know that noopept activated/enhanced NIF. Apparently that is part of how it works - it makes your brain think your oxygen deficient so it "goes into overdrive" to compensate. That doesn't strike me as terribly safe. 

 

I think I'll throw out my bottle. It expired in 2017, anyway. 

[Coffeee]

I cannot get erection anymore due to Exictotoxicity from pramiracetam i believe.....is there a way that I can prove that I have Exictotoxicity????I did a brain scan and my doctor said he saw nothing wrong? I am impotent for 10 years now since taking nootropics...i have to take a horse pill of viagra to get an erection which is not a natural one....SOS.

[Delton]

I cannot get erection anymore due to Exictotoxicity from pramiracetam i believe.....is there a way that I can prove that I have Exictotoxicity????I did a brain scan and my doctor said he saw nothing wrong? I am impotent for 10 years now since taking nootropics...i have to take a horse pill of viagra to get an erection which is not a natural one....SOS.

 

 

No offense but that sounds very unlikely. How much piracetam were you taking? 

 

How is your libido? Have you gotten your testosterone checked? Nightime erections? 

 

Also curious how you got a brain scan... those are expensive and hard to get!