11 replies to this topic

[Nate-2004]

So I've been trying to sort this issue out but from what I've gathered, new information is coming increasingly to light that it's not too beneficial to take Fish/Krill Oil and eat foods high in PUFAs unless you're also including antioxidants. This is supposedly due to the amount of lipid peroxidation that occurs with PUFAs especially. This can even (apparently) affect the degree of insulin response and blood glucose spikes after eating.

 

Here's a review stating otherwise, however, and another one on how ALA prevents peroxidation, in fish, but ... we aren't fish.... sooo.

 

Yet I know we need plenty of DHA/EPA, especially of the phospholipid variety (based on bioavailability of DHA). The conundrum here is that taking antioxidants every day is not such a good thing to do. Hell, I even cycle my micronutrient smoothies.

 

The good thing about krill oil is that it usually contains astaxanthin, an antioxidant. This is what apparently gives Salmon that pink color, is it not?

 

What say you all?

Edited by Nate-2004, 04 January 2018 - 09:27 PM.

[Dorian Grey]

All things in moderation is perhaps wise, though this is an interesting topic.  The big move away from saturated fats to vegetable oils has some interesting parallels with the obesity epidemic, and though improvements in cancer treatment have increased survival rates, cancer occurrence is on the rise.  An interesting take on this here:

 

http://www.second-op...ml#.Wk6cctWnHrc

 

One problem with PUFA's is they are prone to oxidation, particularly in warm blooded high iron environments like today's iron fortified humans.  Iron tends to accumulate, particularly in males and acts as the catalyst for lipid oxidation.  The liver is both the primary storage site for excess iron, and Grand Central Station for lipid metabolism, predisposing fatty liver disease which has grown to epidemic levels since the double whammy of iron fortification and move to vegetable oils. 

 

Vitamin-E is the bodies primary lipid antioxidant, but unfortunately has been demonized of late.  The perfect storm for rancid liver disease.  

 

Fish oil / PUFA's and iron fortified foods are most likely a very bad combination in warm blooded animals.  Mother Nature advises saturated animal fat is best for animals, and polyunsaturated fish oils best for little fishies who must survive in icy streams.  

[Nate-2004]

Vitamin E has a pretty bad rap because nobody knows that a lack of Gamma Tocopherol was the reason for its bad effects. Alpha throws off the balance by itself and RNS spins out of control 

Edited by Nate-2004, 05 January 2018 - 12:45 AM.

[Dorian Grey]

Agree, it's a bum rap that has been widely accepted, much like the demonization of saturated fat and the worship of vegetable & fish oils.  

 

Interestingly, elevations in iron due to fortification and/or high intake of dietary PUFA's increase demand for Vitamin-E.  Combine the two and shun Vitamin-E and you get an epidemic of fatty liver disease.  

 

I lower iron through blood donation and increase iron homeostasis with chelating supps like quercetin, curcumin & IP6.  This lowers my need for lipid antioxidants so I can take a low dose E with mixed tocopherols.  I've tried High-Gamma E formulations, but they invariably make me feel punky (GI distress).  

 

Better iron homeostasis helps control inflammation without having to ramp up PUFA consumption; iron being the ultimate pro-oxidant & inflammatory component in human physiology.  PUFA's lower inflammation by compromising the immune system...  Iron homeostasis lowers inflammation without compromising immune function.  It's a better way to go (in my humble opinion).  

[Nate-2004]

Isn't Carnosine a better chelator?

[Dorian Grey]

Interesting, I've been studying ferrotoxic disease for years now and haven't seen carnosine mentioned as a top tier chelator.  Giving it a google, it does appear to help sequester "divalent metals", so I guess it must have some therapeutic effect.  Food sources appear to be primarily from meat, so consuming additional meat to manage iron homeostasis might be counterproductive, though supplemental sources might be helpful.  

 

I've always been a bit of a carnivore, so I'm probably getting enough dietary carnosine.  This said, quercetin, curcumin & IP6 are the supplement chelators I've seen mentioned most often.  If carnosine is superior to these, I'd be very interested in seeing the data on this.  

[Nate-2004]

It's said to be an AGE blocker and that chelation is its mechanism of action.

[Dorian Grey]

Looks interesting Nate.  Something vegan/vegetarians in particular might want to look into. 

 

Don't know if more is better for those who already consume meat daily, or whether carnosine is a superior chelator to the more common quercetin, curcumin & IP6.  

 

Certainly something worth pondering though.  Thanks for the input!  

 

 

Edited by Dorian Grey, 05 January 2018 - 05:08 PM.

[Kevnzworld]

There was a thread on this topic years ago.
I take CoQ10, and tocopherols tocotrionols to help block PUFA peroxidation.
There is a lot of research ( posted on the prior thread ) about various lipid soluble antioxidants and lipid peroxidation.
It's also important to buy a high quality fish oil, with an expiration date far in the future.
Life Extension does third party testing of its product, so I use theirs.

[Nate-2004]

Viva Naturals is also really good quality on both their Krill and Fish oil. I take both.

 

I take Life Extension Gamma E which has a little less Alpha and more Gamma in it.

 

I guess everyone seems to agree that E with PUFAs is strongly recommended. 

[Skyguy2005]

All meat contains prionogenic shit. Thats why people got degenerative disease from human flesh and beef, and not from salmon and crab. Luckily you have me, who is probably more intelligent than you, to point that out. Thank me when you're 89 and can remember your name.

[Dorian Grey]

A little horseradish on your prime rib will kill off those pesky prions.  Bleed off the excess iron twice a year and all is good.