674 replies to this topic

[Turnbuckle]

Yes I should have said additionally the following morning C+N+Curc - at T+8, unless you think it is redundant without the intervening dose. Niacin is fine, I like it, high doses of nicotinamide though gave me massive histamine problems a couple of years ago - to the point where I coudn't take any without getting a bad reaction. I believe this was because it exacerbated an already zinc deficient condition.  

 

 

The relationship between histamine and nicotinamide/niacin is more complex than I would've thought--

 

Vitamin B3 and Histamine

Both forms of vitamin B3, nicotinic acid (niacin) and nicotinamide (niacinamide), are necessary to counteract the clinical problems associated with high blood

histamine. 

http://orthomolecula...v17n01-p017.pdf

 

 

In any case, you might drop that to 250 mg and not take any in the subsequent detox doses I suggested in post 399. Niacin can be used, but as its half life is so much shorter (45 minutes vs 5 hours), you would need several subsequent doses to get the same effect.

[lancebr]

 

These aren't likely to add much over the actions of HEPPS and taurine. From the paper you cited--

 

 

 

The other aspects are removing p-tau, which participates with Aβ in producing plaques, and the long halftime of CSF clearance (along with the Aβ dissolved in it). This is some six hours, which allows redeposition if not addressed. If anything, the problem can be with a too rapid release of Aβ, and thus I added the subsequent doses of detox agents to the last protocol (post #399).

 

That said, I will give these a shot.

 

And if you live in a country where HEPPS is not available and reshipping (post #415) doesn't work for you, then you might try ferulic acid and ECGC in place of it. The combo appears to be substantially better than either alone, and both appear to have high ratings by users (for other purposes). Caffeine could be a problem with ECGC, but extracts are available without it.

 

 

 

Thanks for the reply. 

 

 

Based upon the study is there a way to determine what would be the optimal dosages for the ferulic acid and ECGC?

 

 

Also, I know that there are some posts about the concern of ECGC and/or Green Tea Extract potentially causing liver damage.

 

https://www.longecit...cg-supplements/

 

Is this something we need to be concerned with or is it just a lot of exaggeration? 

 

 

I know that both of these compounds supposedly have other benefits that are very positive.

 

 

There seems to be more information abut the usage of ferulic acid, by itself, for AD.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2127228/

 

https://journals.plo...al.pone.0055774

 

https://www.worldsci...192415X15500214

 

https://www.mdpi.com...43/7/7/5246/pdf

 

[ambivalent]

 

The relationship between histamine and nicotinamide/niacin is more complex than I would've thought--

 

 

In any case, you might drop that to 250 mg and not take any in the subsequent detox doses I suggested in post 399. Niacin can be used, but as its half life is so much shorter (45 minutes vs 5 hours), you would need several subsequent doses to get the same effect.

 

 

Certainly at the time I struggled to understand it as I observed here and here. It seemed pretty clear from the study inked in the first case that nicotinamide spikes histamine, but in the other article it seems to suggest that raising NAD via nicotinamide helps reduce it. In the end I reconciled the apparent paradox by reasoning nicotinamide initially lowers histamine via raised NAD but eventually when NAD reaches a threshold the spare excess nicotinamide causes runaway histamine NAD can't suppress. That speculative. Nicotinic acid was fine and certainly helped rather hindered. Anyway, I'm optimistic I'm on top of things now as I believe zinc deficiency hindered the regulation of histamine, so I will nicotinamide a go again - I've tried NR again recently sublingually, and seem to have been ok. Anyhow, this is digressing.

[v_squared123]

Turnbuckle, 

 

What about adding ashwaganda to the protocol? 

 

Withania somnifera reverses Alzheimer's disease pathology by enhancing low-density lipoprotein receptor-related protein in liver.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22308347

 

"A 30-d course of oral administration of a semipurified extract of the root of Withania somnifera consisting predominantly of withanolides and withanosides reversed behavioral deficits, plaque pathology, accumulation of β-amyloid peptides (Aβ) and oligomers in the brains of middle-aged and old APP/PS1 Alzheimer's disease transgenic mice"

 

"The remarkable therapeutic effect of W. somnifera mediated through up-regulation of liver LRP indicates that targeting the periphery offers a unique mechanism for Aβ clearance and reverses the behavioral deficits and pathology seen in Alzheimer's disease models."

 

Amazon is loaded with Ashwaganda products although they are at different purities so im not sure which level extract would be best. 

[v_squared123]

Has anyone come across Oleocanthanl supplement? Ive seen Oleuropein and Hydroxytrosol supplements ( in varying dosages ) but nothing for Oleocanthal which is peculiar considering many of the studies probing why EVOO has anti-AD effects is due to Oleocanthal.

[Turnbuckle]

This paper has a list of 51 natural products possibly useful for AD. See Table 1. 

 

 

[v_squared123]

This paper has a list of 51 natural products possibly useful for AD. See Table 1. 

 

Folks can also take a look at this. Pretty neat considering it the team behind the paper.

 

Ayurvedic medicinal plants for Alzheimer's disease: a review

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3506936/

 

 

Edit:

 

Also:

 

Medical Plants and Nutraceuticals for Amyloid-β Fibrillation Inhibition

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6311354/

 

" In this study, we performed in vitro fibrillation inhibition tests with eight different medical plant extracts and nutraceuticals using fluorescence spectroscopy. Successful inhibition of the following plant extracts and nutraceuticals were obtained: Withania somnifera, Centella asiatica, Bacopa monnieri, and Convolvulus pluricaulis, providing new drug candidates for the prevention and treatment of Alzheimer’s disease"

 

I know its a petri dish study but it still warrants a look.

 

 

Edited by v_squared123, 24 March 2019 - 08:14 PM.

[v_squared123]

Turnbuckle, 

 

What about adding ashwaganda to the protocol? 

 

Withania somnifera reverses Alzheimer's disease pathology by enhancing low-density lipoprotein receptor-related protein in liver.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22308347

 

"A 30-d course of oral administration of a semipurified extract of the root of Withania somnifera consisting predominantly of withanolides and withanosides reversed behavioral deficits, plaque pathology, accumulation of β-amyloid peptides (Aβ) and oligomers in the brains of middle-aged and old APP/PS1 Alzheimer's disease transgenic mice"

 

"The remarkable therapeutic effect of W. somnifera mediated through up-regulation of liver LRP indicates that targeting the periphery offers a unique mechanism for Aβ clearance and reverses the behavioral deficits and pathology seen in Alzheimer's disease models."

 

Amazon is loaded with Ashwaganda products although they are at different purities so im not sure which level extract would be best. 

 

Role of Vitamin D in Amyloid clearance via LRP-1 upregulation in Alzheimer's disease: A potential therapeutic target?

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/28669880

"The present review establishes a strong correlation between Vitamin D and LRP-1 and their possible involvement in Aβ clearance and thereby emerging as new therapeutic target."

[v_squared123]

Anyone taking the Oleuropein or Hydroxtyrosone olive leaf/fruit extracts experience any ill-like symptoms? ive been checking out reviews on amazon from various brands and it seems that under the 1-star rating some individuals experienced flu-like symptoms....nausea, vomitting, headache, stomach cramps, etc. 

 

Anyone experience anything?

[v_squared123]

Inhibition of tau fibrillization by oleocanthal via reaction with the amino groups of tau.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19549281

 

" Recently, oleocanthal isolated from extra virgin olive oil was found to display non-steroidal anti-inflammatory activity similar to ibuprofen. As our unpublished data indicates an inhibitory effect of oleocanthal on amyloid beta peptide fibrillization, we reasoned that it might inhibit tau fibrillization as well. Herein, we demonstrate that oleocanthal abrogates fibrillization of tau by locking tau into the naturally unfolded state. "

 

 

 

 

[Turnbuckle]

Inhibition of tau fibrillization by oleocanthal via reaction with the amino groups of tau.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19549281

 

" Recently, oleocanthal isolated from extra virgin olive oil was found to display non-steroidal anti-inflammatory activity similar to ibuprofen. As our unpublished data indicates an inhibitory effect of oleocanthal on amyloid beta peptide fibrillization, we reasoned that it might inhibit tau fibrillization as well. Herein, we demonstrate that oleocanthal abrogates fibrillization of tau by locking tau into the naturally unfolded state. "

 

Oleocanthal might be an excellent addition to this protocol, except for its lack of availability. It can be found in olive oil and extracts thereof, but I don't see any vendors stating explicitly the content of oleocanthal. Some speciality EVOO suppliers do supply an analysis of overall polyphenols (and such companies are probably the only reliable sources of olive oil given the widespread fraud and rancid products out there). It's known that polyphenols degrade with time, so buying EVOO of a recent vintage and storing it in the freezer would be advisable--

 

 

Effect of Storage on Oleocanthal and Oleacein Levels.

 

A few olive oil samples were measured for their oleocanthal and oleacein levels over a 12 month period. The samples were produced in December 2010 and measured during the first month after production and 12 months later. In the meantime, the samples were kept in amber glass bottles in a dry and cool place. For olive oils with D1 [sum of oleocanthal and oleacein] > 200, an average reduction by 10−15% was measured, with oleacein showing in all cases a higher percentage of reduction. However, in the case of olive oils with D1 < 100, the reduction reached 50% at 12 months. Although the stability of both compounds in olive oil has been recently reported,26 we show herein that the stability is not similar in all EVOOs.

 

https://sci-hub.se/10.1021/jf3032765

 

 

[v_squared123]

 

Oleocanthal might be an excellent addition to this protocol, except for its lack of availability. It can be found in olive oil and extracts thereof, but I don't see any vendors stating explicitly the content of oleocanthal. Some speciality EVOO suppliers do supply an analysis of overall polyphenols (and such companies are probably the only reliable sources of olive oil given the widespread fraud and rancid products out there). It's known that polyphenols degrade with time, so buying EVOO of a recent vintage and storing it in the freezer would be advisable--

 

 

 

 

 

These guys seem legitimate. They ship within the US. Fair Trader, organic and are high phenolic EVOO. Include certificate of analysis. US prices. Bottles are a tad small; 500 ml but decent price I assume.

 

https://oleatrue.com/

 

Big thing here is these are US based. Most high phenol EVOOs are overseas and have expensive shipping options not mention are prrices similarly to Oleatrue.com but is in Euros. $$$$$.

 

re: polyphenols that degrade 

 

Theres a testkit you can buy and measure ( 80% accuracy ) the amount of Oleocanthal and oleacin in EVOO using a provided colour chart. Its called the Aristoleo Test Kit. Comes with 5 or 10 vials.

 

https://aristoleo.co...toleo-test-kit/

 

They say its for professionals only but how are they to know? 

 

One could use this to get fairly accurate assessment of phenolic content relatively easily. They even show you how to conduct the analysis with a video. Cool! 

[ceridwen]

Can they tell us which is best?

[v_squared123]

 

Oleocanthal might be an excellent addition to this protocol, except for its lack of availability. It can be found in olive oil and extracts thereof, but I don't see any vendors stating explicitly the content of oleocanthal. Some speciality EVOO suppliers do supply an analysis of overall polyphenols (and such companies are probably the only reliable sources of olive oil given the widespread fraud and rancid products out there). It's known that polyphenols degrade with time, so buying EVOO of a recent vintage and storing it in the freezer would be advisable--

 

 

 

 

 

Do you have any suggestions how one would store olive oil in the freezer? Doesn't glass crack and break if frozen with liquid inside? 

 

Also, have you come across any high phenolic olive oil thats worth adding to the protocol? 

[Turnbuckle]

To store oil in the freezer, put it in the freezer. The bottle won't break. And no, at present I'm not adding any oil to the protocol. It's effective as is, and doesn't need to be made more complicated.

[v_squared123]

To store oil in the freezer, put it in the freezer. The bottle won't break. And no, at present I'm not adding any oil to the protocol. It's effective as is, and doesn't need to be made more complicated.

 

re: storage of olive oil.

 

Ok great. Thanks.

 

re: protocol

 

What brand of Hydroxytyrosol are you using? 

[Mind_Paralysis]

This thread... is the author aware of the recent evidence that Alzheimers is, like multiple other chronic, terminal diseases, connected to a pathogen - and the amyloid plaque may actually be completely innocent, perhaps even a form of self-defense by the brain?

 

Have a look at this:

 

https://www.newscien...how-to-stop-it/

 

If the evidence of this continues to grow... then this thread may just, overnight, have become irrelevant. Then you need to look into the growth-factors of this dental bacteria, and what kind of antibiotics should be effective against it. And, the rather tricky ordeal of delivering this antibiotic INTO the human brain...

 

My personal suggestion, would be the application of DMSO+Antibiotic mix to the areas on the neck/throat which lie closest to the brain. (not sure which ones... either around the base of the neck, or at the bottom - ventricular access is what we want - and the DMSO is apt to enter the brain quicker if applied somewhere in this region)

 

 

https://teachmeanato...rterial-supply/

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...books/NBK11042/

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2952976/

[Turnbuckle]

This thread... is the author aware of the recent evidence that Alzheimers is, like multiple other chronic, terminal diseases, connected to a pathogen - and the amyloid plaque may actually be completely innocent, perhaps even a form of self-defense by the brain?

 

Have a look at this:

 

https://www.newscien...how-to-stop-it/

 

If the evidence of this continues to grow... then this thread may just, overnight, have become irrelevant. Then you need to look into the growth-factors of this dental bacteria, and what kind of antibiotics should be effective against it. And, the rather tricky ordeal of delivering this antibiotic INTO the human brain...

 

My personal suggestion, would be the application of DMSO+Antibiotic mix to the areas on the neck/throat which lie closest to the brain. (not sure which ones... either around the base of the neck, or at the bottom - ventricular access is what we want - and the DMSO is apt to enter the brain quicker if applied somewhere in this region)

 

 

https://teachmeanato...rterial-supply/

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...books/NBK11042/

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2952976/

 

New Scientist is the National Enquirer of the science world. It is entertaining, but very little they report on actually works out. The protocol used in this thread is based on the standard theories of an amyloid/tau axis, but avoids the silver bullet tendencies that big pharma needs to make money. It is not speculative, as it works.

 

DMSO has been discussed here before, but DMSO is known to drive neurons into apoptosis. See this paper, and this one.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 04 April 2019 - 07:33 PM.

[pamojja]

DMSO has been discussed here before, but DMSO is known to drive neurons into apoptosis. See this paper, and this one.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2682536/
 
...Therefore, to screen for apoptotic cell death, postnatal day (P)7 C57BL/6 mouse pups (n=78) were injected with 10 ml/kg DMSO or saline, perfused at various post-injection time points, and brains were examined for activated caspase-3 immunoreactivity
 
While the period of vulnerability in rodents is entirely post-natal, encompassing the first two weeks of post-natal life, in humans, the corresponding period of vulnerability would extend from the last trimester of in utero life to the first several years of post-natal life

Injected and concerned about children getting it injected together with bone marrow transplants, or Intravitreal injections - I really doubt that really applies to elderly adults and transdermal applications of DSMO.

[Turnbuckle]

 

Injected and concerned about children getting it injected together with bone marrow transplants, or Intravitreal injections - I really doubt that really applies to elderly adults and transdermal applications of DSMO.

 

 

 

The second paper found toxicity down at the 0.1% level*, and you think it doesn't apply to elderly adults whose neurons are already under assault? Well, that is a chance individuals could take, but this strikes me as taking a speculative idea and applying it using a speculative method with a solvent of uncertain safety. But if you're brave enough, do try it and report back.

 

*"Our findings have shown that final concentrations of DMSO as low as 0.1% (v/v) are toxic in vivo."

[pamojja]

But if you're brave enough, do try it and report back.

 

*"Our findings have shown that final concentrations of DMSO as low as 0.1% (v/v) are toxic in vivo."

 

Lol, I certainly wont ever inject it into my eyes. But since an MRI found an old infarction in my cerebellum, I actually shaved my head and applied till the hair got too long again. But nothing to report, since I didn't had any symptoms from that infarction anyway.
 

Edited by pamojja, 04 April 2019 - 10:07 PM.

[sentics]

i don't really follow this thread so i don't know if you guys have looked into low level laser therapy yet. you can do it with a 10 $ infrared light 

 

http://www.jneuropsy...ers-disease.pdf

[Turnbuckle]

i don't really follow this thread so i don't know if you guys have looked into low level laser therapy yet. you can do it with a 10 $ infrared light 

 

http://www.jneuropsy...ers-disease.pdf

 

 

This thread is directed to removing the primary cause of AD--amyloid beta and tau--and not for treatment of accompanying conditions such as depression. That said, red light can be used to stimulate the function of tissues lying within an inch or so of the surface. It can be used to stimulate fat cells to give up their triglycerides, to stimulate testicles to produce more testosterone, to stimulate the thyroid gland and the vagus nerves, and by using it against the upper palate, the hippocampus. I've even found it effective against warts. IR and near IR aren't as good, in my opinion but they do penetrate more deeply. As for laser light, there is no reason to believe that it would be better, as coherent light becomes incoherent when passing through tissue.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 05 April 2019 - 01:38 PM.

[8bitmore]

This thread is directed to removing the primary cause of AD--amyloid beta and tau--and not for treatment of accompanying conditions such as depression. That said, red light can be used to stimulate the function of tissues lying within an inch or so of the surface. It can be used to stimulate fat cells to give up their triglycerides, to stimulate testicles to produce more testosterone, to stimulate the thyroid gland and the vagus nerves, and by using it against the upper palate, the hippocampus. I've even found it effective against warts. IR and near IR aren't as good, in my opinion but they do penetrate more deeply. As for laser light, there is no reason to believe that it would be better, as coherent light becomes incoherent when passing through tissue.

 

What wavelength, and type, of red light are you referring to here? Presently dealing with chronic infection (over 2 years now) that may have fungal component (hence little results using antibiotics) so really interested in something that you found effective against warts (would be grateful if you could write about, or DM me, the brand of light you used). Garlic have helped me but only transitionally, then things seem to settle back into not-good territory.

 

Thanks,

[Immutabledestiny]

This thread... is the author aware of the recent evidence that Alzheimers is, like multiple other chronic, terminal diseases, connected to a pathogen - and the amyloid plaque may actually be completely innocent, perhaps even a form of self-defense by the brain?

Have a look at this:

https://www.newscien...how-to-stop-it/

If the evidence of this continues to grow... then this thread may just, overnight, have become irrelevant. Then you need to look into the growth-factors of this dental bacteria, and what kind of antibiotics should be effective against it. And, the rather tricky ordeal of delivering this antibiotic INTO the human brain...

My personal suggestion, would be the application of DMSO+Antibiotic mix to the areas on the neck/throat which lie closest to the brain. (not sure which ones... either around the base of the neck, or at the bottom - ventricular access is what we want - and the DMSO is apt to enter the brain quicker if applied somewhere in this region)


https://teachmeanato...rterial-supply/

https://www.ncbi.nlm...books/NBK11042/

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2952976/

I Agree here in regard to the cause of Alzheimer’s and neurodegeneration in general (pathogens as drivers) Persistent infection, with several herpes viruses are being tied to these conditions more now than ever, some brilliant researchers out of Harvard have proven the beta amyloid is an anti microbial peptide that’s basically just encapsulating infectious agents (akin to the scabbing process on skin imo)

I think it will likely be polymicrobial infection plus certain toxic burdens vs just one pathogen driving the entire process.

It seems with this protocol you’re blaming the firemen for the fire just as cholesterol is blamed in heart disease when it’s acutally just patching up damage (inflammation)

Is there proof this protocol actually works? Wouldn’t it be more effective say if it were combined with antimocrbial or antiviral agents?

Edited by Immutabledestiny, 07 April 2019 - 11:11 PM.

[Immutabledestiny]

The studies here support the hypothesis that removing amyloid may not be the wisest approach.

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[Mind_Paralysis]

I Agree here in regard to the cause of Alzheimer’s and neurodegeneration in general (pathogens as drivers) Persistent infection, with several herpes viruses are being tied to these conditions more now than ever, some brilliant researchers out of Harvard have proven the beta amyloid is an anti microbial peptide that’s basically just encapsulating infectious agents (akin to the scabbing process on skin imo)

I think it will likely be polymicrobial infection plus certain toxic burdens vs just one pathogen driving the entire process.

It seems with this protocol you’re blaming the firemen for the fire just as cholesterol is blamed in heart disease when it’s acutally just patching up damage (inflammation)

Is there proof this protocol actually works? Wouldn’t it be more effective say if it were combined with antimocrbial or antiviral agents?

 

If I recall correctly... multiple drug-candidates which dissolve amyloid plaque have been tested, and found to be ineffective - hence why there is now research into multiple other treatment modalities. (neurogenics, nmda-antagonists, inflammatory pathways, pathogenic identification, et c)

[platypus]

As the glympatic system is cleansing the brain during deep sleep, should we not be looking into substances that increase deep sleep? GHB is pregabalin come to mind, I would personally steer clear from the former. 

 

https://www.eurekale...m-nas022519.php

[Mind_Paralysis]

New Scientist is the National Enquirer of the science world. It is entertaining, but very little they report on actually works out. The protocol used in this thread is based on the standard theories of an amyloid/tau axis, but avoids the silver bullet tendencies that big pharma needs to make money. It is not speculative, as it works.

 

DMSO has been discussed here before, but DMSO is known to drive neurons into apoptosis. See this paper, and this one.

 

My idea of showing the before-mentioned study is not to claim that this is the obvious truth - but to sow the seed of doubt, to have you consider alternative options, should your ideas not bear fruit.

 

But, I digress, one should not take simply ONE source as evidence enough, so I present you with these other references:

 

 

https://advances.sci...nt/5/1/eaau3333

(original article I referenced before - you can have a closer look at their reasoning here)

 

Herpes Simplex Virus Type 1 and Other Pathogens are Key Causative Factors in Sporadic Alzheimer’s Disease

https://content.iosp...sease/jad142853

 

Infection and Alzheimer's Disease: The APOE ε4 Connection and Lipid Metabolism

https://content.iosp...isease/jad00814

 

Can oral infection be a risk factor for Alzheimer's disease?

https://www.tandfonl...02/jom.v7.29143

 

Infiltration of the brain by pathogens causes Alzheimer’s disease

https://www.scienced...197458004000971

 

Emerging roles of pathogens in Alzheimer disease

https://www.cambridg...61C5F7D9C07F16C

 

 

The idea that a pathogen of some sort, even bacteria, could be involved, is not a new one - this is simply the first time there's been some more reliable evidence.

 

 

I was unaware of that effect DMSO has on neurons... thank you for the references. HMM! Certainly problematic - I need to have a closer look at that.

 

What are the alternatives to DMSO btw? I do believe there are multiple other dissolving and skin-penetrating substances, is there not? (disregarding actual dangerous acids...)

[ceridwen]

Rose hip oil