7 replies to this topic

[AppliedBio]

So l am a social drinker, consuming at most 3-4 standard drinks ~2x / week on average. It's an understatement to say l get hungover easily. l get hungover far more often than all of my friends despite always drinking less than them. My range of symptoms include lethargy, slow cognitive function, dry mouth, and, most frequently, palpitations during sleep / significantly elevated heart rate upon wakening...rarely, if ever have any GI issues (never thrown up from drinking too much). My heart rate / palpitation thing is the most reliable indicator of whether l will be hungover the next day (which generally is the case). l am normally somewhat bradychardic - resting heart rate usually in the mid to upper 50s or so. My heart rate will rise during drinking and remain elevated for quite some time. Hard to say exactly by how much since l am rarely resting while drinking (usually dancing instead). However, l typically wear my apple watch, and sometimes check my heart rate when l get home after a night out. I've noticed that l can physically feel a difference in my heart rhythm with my heart rate as low as 63 BPM. l typically wake up after ~5 hours of sleep with my heart beating more strongly and at a higher rate than normal (maybe 70 BPM? hard too say since l don't sleep with my watch on) with a parched mouth. When this happens, l invariably experience some degree of other hangover symptoms later in the day (fatigue, lack of appetite, mental fog / deficit in cognitive processing speed, headache). I have spent the last 7 months or so experimenting with some things to help prevent hangovers, and unfortunately l have come up empty. The only consistent pattern i've noticed is that the later in the night l drink, the more likely l am to be hungover the next day. l have day drank on numerous occasions in quantities that significantly exceed my "going out" consumption and wake up feeling more or less fine the next day. But it's getting to the point where l can't drink at night at all. Last night was a great example of this. l ordered just ONE red bull vodka (in a small cup) at ~1:30 AM, drank nothing but water afterwards, fell asleep at 5:15 AM and have been exhausted and unproductive with a mild headache the entire day. On another recent occasion, l had 3 coronas spaced out more than one hour apart with 2 cups of water in between each drink and again, hungover the next day. l give my pills to friends and they tell me it definitely helps mitigate their hangover, yet it honestly seems to have little to no effect on me. I'm thinking that too much drinking from when l was 18-21 has permanently damaged my body and/or caused irreversible neuroadaptaions. l used imbibe heavily on weekends then (6+ drinks 2x a week pretty regularly).

 

My standard stack is:

 

Prior to drinking

600 - 1200 mg NAC

2g taurine

100 mg ALA

300 mg milk thistle

 

 

l have tried several other things including DHM but that also seems to have no effect on me. 

 

Friends of mine can vouch that this seems to help them

 

 

Other random info. 26M, white, 5'9 135 lbs, Near vegan diet, Very sedentary lifestyle, but work out 2x a week, noticing a lot of hair falling out over past few months (often find 1 - 2 dozen strands a day appear on my laptop keyboard, some small some large - thinking some of these may be eyebrow / eyelashes; the longer strands seem to come from along my hairline. hair on top / back of my head is very thick...) 

 

Any ideas? Any things l should get tested for? Thyroid functioning maybe? Should l try taking anything for an extended period of time rather than just before drinking? Or is the only real solution to stop drinking entirely? Because it's really getting to that point for me given that this happens 90% of the time l drink.

 

 

Hope some of you can offer some insight. 

 

Thanks,

Michael

Edited by AppliedBio, 28 January 2018 - 04:53 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

One possibility is a deficiency with ALDH2 or other genes involved with the metabolism of alcohol. Easy to check it out. See this link and this one.

 

Another possibility is your vegan diet, which I expect would be low in stearic acid. Mitochondria typically fission and fuse as part of their quality control process, and you might get benefit by driving that to fusion with stearic acid (5 grams or more) as this fatty acid is unique in that regard. Fissioned mitochondria are less efficient at making ATP and alcohol reduces that even further, and thus cells have less energy to detoxify the acetaldehyde produced in breaking down ethanol.

 

Alcohol consumption alters the metabolism of the most common type of cell found in the liver, the hepatocyte. The presence of alcohol in the body causes the liver to use more oxygen—for example, when breaking down the alcohol. Increased oxygen use, in turn, causes oxygen deficits in several key cells, particularly in hepatocytes located near the small hepatic veins. These veins return blood to the heart for re–oxygenation after it has passed through the liver. Hepatocytes surrounding these veins are the first to show signs of liver disease. The damage induced by oxygen deficits may be exacerbated by alcohol–induced deficits in other components that are essential for cell survival. For example, adenosine triphosphate (ATP), the cell’s main source of energy, is generated primarily during the course of two sets of metabolic reactions: glycolysis and the mitochondrial oxidative phosphorylation process. Alcohol consumption may interfere with both of these pathways of ATP production through several mechanisms. An inadequate supply of ATP impairs the cell’s ability to perform critical functions, including the repair of alcohol–induced cell damage, and may therefore contribute to cell death and alcoholic liver disease.

https://pubs.niaaa.n...7-4/291-299.htm

 

 

I can't find anything on using stearic acid this way, so consider this highly speculative. I've used olive oil before drinking and it works to lessen the negative effects. Some believe it slows down the absorption, but I suspect it's more the polyphenols and possibly stearic acid as well. Olive oil has a highly variable amount--.5-5%--so if that is the active ingredient, it would be rather hit or miss. Food grade stearic acid produced from vegetable sources is available by the pound from Amazon and is quite cheap.

 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 28 January 2018 - 11:57 AM.

[Oakman]

Michael, I think you are missing the obvious...drink less. If that's not going to happen, listen to my experience and glean from it what you will.

 

There is nothing 'wrong' with you. Alcohol is a poison. You don't weigh very much....you are in fact a lightweight among typical adults. Your blood alcohol takes a big hit with each drink.  Look at the tables that show alcohol level vs weight. You suffer the inevitable consequences, dry mouth, headache, brain fog, and elevated heart rate, among others. I repeat - alcohol is a poison - your body is doing the only thing it knows how to - reacting to the assault.

 

I weigh 155 or less sometimes. The hard way, I've learned that one drink, not one and a half, not two... is the limit. Not one an hour, or one if I don't eat food. Simply one. Easy peasy.

 

On the odd occasion when I exceed these limits? You know the results well. Plus, I know drinking earlier in the day is 'better', afternoon is best, drinking and sleeping soon after the worst. Drinking too much automagically elevates my heart rate, quite annoyingly I might add. It makes sleeping hard. It's disturbing. I don't like it, or any of the other over-indulging symptoms. Oh yes, and sweet mixed drinks are the worst. I've never had a Red Bull mix, but I can only imagine that the caffeine and other chemicals it contains only adds to the problems you experience. Mixed drinks make it way to quick and easy to consume to much.

 

Personally, I've learned to stick with no more that a16-20 oz beer, good craft beer, even high ABV beer (7-10%), but simply beer. But again, usually one a day.  Occasionaly, if I  break my rules, it's having one for lunch, then another in the evening. That is the only exception and a rare one at that. Again, I think your results are normal results for a person your size.

 

You'd be amazed how much better partying life is following simply rules. 

[AppliedBio]

One possibility is a deficiency with ALDH2 or other genes involved with the metabolism of alcohol. Easy to check it out. See this link and this one.

 

Another possibility is your vegan diet, which I expect would be low in stearic acid. Mitochondria typically fission and fuse as part of their quality control process, and you might get benefit by driving that to fusion with stearic acid (5 grams or more) as this fatty acid is unique in that regard. Fissioned mitochondria are less efficient at making ATP and alcohol reduces that even further, and thus cells have less energy to detoxify the acetaldehyde produced in breaking down ethanol.

 

Alcohol consumption alters the metabolism of the most common type of cell found in the liver, the hepatocyte. The presence of alcohol in the body causes the liver to use more oxygen—for example, when breaking down the alcohol. Increased oxygen use, in turn, causes oxygen deficits in several key cells, particularly in hepatocytes located near the small hepatic veins. These veins return blood to the heart for re–oxygenation after it has passed through the liver. Hepatocytes surrounding these veins are the first to show signs of liver disease. The damage induced by oxygen deficits may be exacerbated by alcohol–induced deficits in other components that are essential for cell survival. For example, adenosine triphosphate (ATP), the cell’s main source of energy, is generated primarily during the course of two sets of metabolic reactions: glycolysis and the mitochondrial oxidative phosphorylation process. Alcohol consumption may interfere with both of these pathways of ATP production through several mechanisms. An inadequate supply of ATP impairs the cell’s ability to perform critical functions, including the repair of alcohol–induced cell damage, and may therefore contribute to cell death and alcoholic liver disease.

https://pubs.niaaa.n...7-4/291-299.htm

 

 

I can't find anything on using stearic acid this way, so consider this highly speculative. I've used olive oil before drinking and it works to lessen the negative effects. Some believe it slows down the absorption, but I suspect it's more the polyphenols and possibly stearic acid as well. Olive oil has a highly variable amount--.5-5%--so if that is the active ingredient, it would be rather hit or miss. Food grade stearic acid produced from vegetable sources is available by the pound from Amazon and is quite cheap.

 

Thanks for the reply Turnbuckle. As always, sharing novel insight and a unique perspective on things. Yes, ALDH2 l was aware of and was actually planning to get my DNA tested specifically for that purpose. The stearic acid bit is interesting though.  I'll buy some and start consuming regularly / before drinking to see if it helps at all and will report back. 

 

And Oakman, yes I'm aware of my weight, but l promise that is not the issue here. 95% of my friends also weigh under 155 pounds and l am the only one who reacts this way. The lecture on moderating my intake is a bit...pedantic. l have partied sober quite often and had a great time. This is more of an intellectual challenge for me at this point actually.

Edited by AppliedBio, 01 February 2018 - 03:06 PM.

[platypus]

Have you tried GHB? IF used responsibly the effects are pretty similar to alcohol, with little hangover. It is addictive to some people though, perhaps more than alcohol. 

[Eryximachus]

Have you tried GHB? IF used responsibly the effects are pretty similar to alcohol, with little hangover. It is addictive to some people though, perhaps more than alcohol. 

 

GHB is a Schedule 1 controlled substance. This means jail time. Ridiculous to suggest it.  

 

If the OP needs a tranquilizer to help with socializing, Valium works best for social anxiety in my opinion. It is not going to land you in jail, even if you don't have a prescription, it is a pill, not a finicky liquid, and just plain works better. 

 

[Mr Serendipity]

Vitamin C which is found 10 fold in the brain compared to the body. You've probably seen my thread: http://www.longecity...otropic-effect/

 

I was a regular taker of many other supplements before taking vitamin c, and was pretty settled on my stack. But I knew I was still missing something, as I was never able to cure my OCD, and my brain energy would go kaput in the evenings or when studying. Then last year I discovered vitamin c is used heavily in the brain (read my thread above).

 

Basically once I started taking it, my OCD went down, my mental clarity went up, my visual clarity went up, my mental energy went up, my mood was more stable, and my negative voice inside diminished. 

 

I should note I was also a social/binge drinker in the past, and my hangovers would last a couple of days (I would feel brain dead). Looking back, drinking probably zapped my brain of what little vitamin C it had left.

 

Now I don't suffer from brain fog/dumbness anymore, and consider vitamin C my top nootropic. There are other things like Gingko and the rest of my supplements that probably keep the brain healthy too, but if I could only take 1 supplement for brain health, it would be vitamin c hands down.

 

Anyway that's all I can say really, I hope it helps your situation.

[Razor444]

Metadoxine. It speeds up the clearance of acetaldehyde.