16 replies to this topic

[Ganymede]

Hello LongeCity,

 

I was asked by an advisor (mod?) in my intro to repost my thread in this sub forum. It's nice to be here, and I look forward to talking more:

 

I was born in December, 1984 so I recently turned 33 years old. My entire life I've aged slowly but things are slowly getting worse. I went on holiday last summer and was held at the airport for half an hour because my passport was suspicious due to my age. I was at a party last night with people I didn't know which literally came to a standstill when people found out I was 33, no one could believe it, it's a common reaction, but the severity of it last night unsettled me to say the least.

 

Here's what I know about my condition: during birth I became tangled in the womb and had to be emergency C-sectioned but I had already asphyxiated and was dead on delivery. They however managed to resuscitate me and I was kept in an incubator for a few months. It's hard to know the details about all this as my mother was alone at the hospital and heavily sedated during the birth.

 

As I grew up I quickly became obese by my teens (looking under and up to 10 years old by the time I was 16) at 16 they finally began to diagnose some of the problems with me. It emerged that I had damage either to the pituitary gland or the stalk when I asphyxiated at birth (the running theory at least), this had naturally a knock on effect. I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism, an immunity disorder and a severe lack of hydrocortisone. I will just quickly point out that I am sexual active and can grow facial hair.

 

Anyway long story short, I'm now a healthy weight I regularly run and do strength workouts, whilst my immunity is low I don't take any medications save medication to treat my thyroid condition, which I self medicate. I'm healthy for the most part, I barely drink or smoke, I'm not someone who has any extensive drugs background and I've cycled between meat eating, vegetarianism and veganism though these days I juggle all three depending on the day.

 

Anyway, sorry I know I'm going on a bit. Why am I here? Because at the end of the day while I love who I am for all the problems medically and socially I live with, I'm scared. Endocrinologists I meet don't have a clue what to do other than prescribe testosterone supplement (which I haven't taken for like a decade because it made me too aggressive, besides which I find exercise does a better job at producing a smaller but impactful amount.)

 

I guess I live with a couple of fears that a) I'm going to wake up one day and start rapidly aging and b) that if I don't something insidious is going on beneath the surface and I'm going to suffer horribly in my old age from all sorts of problems. Again, doctors just don't know. they just want to study me, I've literally had doctors from all over a hospital wing come to meet me because they found me fascinating. It's terrifying.

 

I'm not expecting answers here, but people here do seem to care about the issue and I don't know, maybe I'll find some tools, mental or otherwise to put my mind at ease going forward.

[Lady4T]

Hello, Ganymede:

I found your story fascinating. Is there a name for your condition?

Maybe inside you is the answer to the youth/longevity question....

I hope that knowledgeable members comment here.

[xEva]

Ganymede, it sounds like you may be low on androgens and this may result in a somewhat feminine features, which, in males, is always associated with youth.  Years ago, there was a guy here, an endocrinologist, who  chemically castrated himself (by taking androgen blockers / inhibitors) and, as a result, he claimed that at 43 he looked 19. 

 

I think androgens control the program that drives development. If so, this of course is bad news for men who are after big muscles and a mature, "authoritarian" look. And there are many examples of how excessive androgens and growth factors age such men (e.g. Mickey Rourke). 

 

In this regard I find it also very instructive to watch postmenopausal women -- how, usually in their 50s, they go through a "bulky" phase, which often shows in the neck (it becomes wide, like that of a body builder, in case you have not noticed). Their facial features also acquire a masculine tinge -- and the more masculine they look,  the older they look.

 

I used to think that it was just a cultural thing, meaning that masculinity is usually associated with authority and age, while femininity with youth.  But after I converted to the programmed aging, I have a hunch that some androgen, coupled with a stress hormone (maybe cortisol -- like in you it was found low)  does in fact drive not only maturation -- maturation as a program that transforms child into adult -- but also aging itself.

 

 

But hey, enjoy  your youthful looks while they lasts.  I think your fears that one day you will age rapidly (what, in a sorta rebound effect?) are unfounded.

[QuestforLife]

There is certainly something to be said for hormonal changes driving aging (as well as development). But it can't be as simple as being low on androgens. Yes women accelerate in Aging after menopause when their oestrogen falls relative to testosterone, but men also age at this time of life as their testosterone is falling precipitously (and relatively speaking oestrogen rises). So it must also have to do with other hormone levels changing- and in both men and women both follicle stimulated hormone, and lutenizing hormone, rise a great deal. Why exactly? Well that gets right to the heart of whether it truly is programmed aging, or whether it is triggered by rising damage of the stochastic sort.

[Believer]

Interestingly men taking female hormones ("transgenders") and anti-androgens (some of them are physically castrated) also go through a sort-of "menopause" stage where they age horribly and begin to look old or slightly masculinized. In addition to this they also experience weight gain in their 30s to 40s.

This is true also for men that began their "transition" early in life. Even take a look at the male teenagers that were coerced to live as women in the 70s and 80s. Today they look horrible even though they have lacked male hormones for decades.

 

There is something to the ages of 30 and 40 where it seems that both men and women begin to rapidly age or "masculinize" which appears to be hormone independent. I suspect that it has to do with telomeres and gene expression. Very, very rarely you find someone in their 30s who look young and you wouldn't expect was 30.

 

I an eager to know. Wouldn't the lack of oxygen at that age cause severe brain damage???

 

[Ganymede]

Okay so I am slightly terrified at this point that I am actually about to rapidly age and look awful.

As for a lack of oxygen causing brain damage, I can't answer why it didn't. As far as I can tell I am mentally acute though I was dyslexic at math as a teenager and still struggle with it a little but I also designed a tabletop rpg for 5 years which uses a lot of math so I'm not afraid to tackle it.

[xEva]

Okay so I am slightly terrified at this point that I am actually about to rapidly age and look awful.

 
-?? why?

 

PS

btw, I don't know who pressed on the red button under yout post (we have some prick here who keeps doing it -- I wish they'd post the usernames) but it was not me.
  
 

There is certainly something to be said for hormonal changes driving aging (as well as development). But it can't be as simple as being low on androgens. Yes women accelerate in Aging after menopause when their oestrogen falls relative to testosterone, but men also age at this time of life as their testosterone is falling precipitously (and relatively speaking oestrogen rises). So it must also have to do with other hormone levels changing- and in both men and women both follicle stimulated hormone, and lutenizing hormone, rise a great deal. Why exactly? Well that gets right to the heart of whether it truly is programmed aging, or whether it is triggered by rising damage of the stochastic sort.

 
 
I agree with you, though when we speak of 'androgens', what exactly do we mean? Probably it's not just testosterone.  I don't pretend to know which hormone it is and can only guess it's some steroid of 'androgen family'.

 

It just so happens that I have not seen ONE example when extra androgens made anyone look younger. NEVER. Oh yeah, there was this guy, whose ad was plastered all over the net a year ago+. But he simply was not fit to begin with and then he sorta saw the light, and then gym + GH + testosterone (+something else -?) made him fit -- a definite improvement. but younger? 
 
Or take k d lang. She makes a good study case, coz she is a female with naturally high androgens, which makes it easier to see what I mean. There are videos of her on youtube from young to now. I'd say she aged faster than an average entertainer and her aging mainly manifested as ever-increasing bulk. This bulk is what I'm talking about. 
 
The body becomes bulkier overall, but it's easiest to see in the face: the jowls become wider and heavier. The trend is more pronounced in men than women (as I already mentioned, women generally start getting it in their 50s, while most men have it already in their 30s). Take k d lang again: her face was narrow when she first appeared on Johnny Carson show, now it's square. And it's not just extra weight. Or take the bb crowd: everybody has heavy jowls which sorta blend into the neck (a la Mr. Clean lol). Which hormone does it? 

 

 
 
 

Edited by xEva, 04 February 2018 - 07:37 AM.

[xEva]

Interestingly men taking female hormones ("transgenders") and anti-androgens (some of them are physically castrated) also go through a sort-of "menopause" stage where they age horribly and begin to look old or slightly masculinized. In addition to this they also experience weight gain in their 30s to 40s.

This is true also for men that began their "transition" early in life. Even take a look at the male teenagers that were coerced to live as women in the 70s and 80s. Today they look horrible even though they have lacked male hormones for decades.

 

There is something to the ages of 30 and 40 where it seems that both men and women begin to rapidly age or "masculinize" which appears to be hormone independent. I suspect that it has to do with telomeres and gene expression. Very, very rarely you find someone in their 30s who look young and you wouldn't expect was 30.

 

 
I don't know where you live and with whom hang out but I think it's pretty normal to look young (undifferentiated 20+) all the way to the mid 30s. Maybe first wrinkles and first gray hairs start slowly accumulating after that.
 
I don't mean to devalue your experience, but from what I;ve seen, aging starts to be noticeable after 40, progresses through 45-50 and accelerates after 55. I remember asking oldtimers on a fasting forum, at what age, they thought, fasting stops showing superficial rejuvenation (like the return of that youthful pinky complexion). And the consensus was, at around 55. 

 

and it's funny that you brought up transgender women, coz I've been wondering about the lifelong effect of androgen blockers. It's because recently I met a woman, ~60, who was swearing by spironolactone (that's what transgenders take). She said that she began taking it  on her doc's advice (for whiskers and thinning hair) and she was delighted, coz not only it worked as intended, but, surprisingly, it had an added effect of making her waist thinner. She said she reacquired her girly figure! And her skin became softer too. 

 

So naturally this piqued my interest and read up on spironolactone.  Primarily, it is aldosterone blocker. But at higher dose it becomes also "androgen blocker" (...and, who knows, maybe something else-?)

 

It appears, the "androgen receptors" are not too picky about what triggers them -- or what blocks them. I find it intriguing  that the molecule that blocks the receptor for a mineralocorticoid hormone (aldosterone mainly regulates Na/K ion balance) can also block receptors for sex hormones -- things that drive our behavior and appearance.  Also, it seems these steroid hormones can morph into each others' various forms -? 

 

But you're saying that transgender women don't look youngish... oh well, there goes my new theory... :(

or could it be due to an unhealthy lifestyle?

Edited by xEva, 04 February 2018 - 08:17 AM.

[Dorian Grey]

Hypo-Pituitary function can result in (lifelong) reduced absorption of dietary iron.  

 

https://academic.oup...edFrom=fulltext

 

Age related iron accumulation is believed to accelerate aging:

 

http://www.longecity...isease-omnibus/

 

Have you ever had trouble with anemia or had your ferritin (stored iron) checked?  

 

I expect with reduced pituitary function, your improved iron homeostasis should last throughout your life.  

 

If this angle interests you, start monitoring your ferritin (a very cheap blood lab) and take steps to lower it (blood donation) if it starts creeping up (ferritin into triple digits).  

 

I've been a blood donor since my early 30s (now 61) and have aged remarkably well myself despite an unhealthy lifestyle.  

 

The menopause / female aging mentioned above may well be due to ferrotoxic disease, as females begin to accumulate iron once they stop menstruating.  

[Ganymede]

This is me at 32, just over a year ago. I just added my image to my profile.

Edited by Ganymede, 25 March 2018 - 06:41 PM.

[xEva]

 yeap, you look like a kid -- somewhat similar to that other guy (sorry forgot his name, from an old TV show).

 

Here is a study I recently bumped into, about the effects of cortisol on aging and development (you said above that its levels were found low you):

 

Accelerated DNA methylation age in adolescent girls: associations with elevated diurnal cortisol and reduced hippocampal volume, 2017. quote:

 

We found that greater diurnal cortisol production was associated with accelerated DNA methylation age, which in turn was associated with reduced left hippocampal volume. 

 

Interesting that sudden aging in pacific salmon after spawning is also driven by high levels of cortisol (as well as in other semelparous species). It seems this hormone is strongly implicated in aging. And I think it also accelerates the development -- just take short living species like mice and compare to similar size mammals that live a less stressful life (due to flight or sheltered environment) like bats or naked mole rats. I think high levels of stress is what makes short-lived animals to sorta hurry up, procreate and die -- and after ions this resulted in a short lifespan characteristic of these species.

 

not that I'm saying that your low cortisol is the key factor, I don't know -- these are just thoughts on the topic 

 

Edited by xEva, 25 March 2018 - 08:07 PM.

[Matt]

From what I can tell, you do look really young. Would be easier to tell if you just posted a picture on the thread though? ...

 

You do appear to look exceptionally young looking. Some people just look 'good for their age' but you can tell which decade they're in... but you're doing great. I disagree with XEva who says that there isn't much difference until later in life. That's just not my experience at all. Me and my friends started to diverge in our appearance from our early to mid 20s.

 

I went on holiday last summer and was held at the airport for half an hour because my passport was suspicious due to my age

 

 

The same happened to me a few years ago.    he was like " Matthew, you look like a young boy". I was in my late 20s at the time and so I just went on about CR and my diet haha

 

I think androgens typically make a person look older and mature if they are high and you're really responsive to them at a young age. But later on in life, they will often make a man appear younger (especially if you've not taken care of your skin).

 

A better idea is to think of maintaining a low-normal testosterone level and having a much slower rate of decline over your lifetime.

 

There are likely multiple factors, but androgen signaling is likely to be one of them. 

 

And I've seen plenty of examples where trans women look a decade or more younger AFTER transition.  Although, it all depends on previous lifestyle, drug use, depression etc.. which tends to be high in the group. And what age they do it.

 

I think after starting CR, my testosterone did decrease and it certainly made me a bit more "boyish" looking. You can see here.

Edited by Matt, 25 March 2018 - 10:46 PM.

[xEva]

Ganymede, I've been reading on CYP21A2 and congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH) which, depending on the affected SNPs, results in various degrees of 21-hydroxylase deficiency (that's the enzyme that 'makes' cortisol). The severe form is obvious upon birth/in infancy, but a mild form, which they call non-classical CAH, is quite common, about 1 in 1000. The deficiency of this enzyme results is lower cortisol and overabundance of other steroids (often androgens though). So I remembered your thread here and thought you may find this interesting.

 

Apparently, there is plenty of information on how to manage children with the most severe form of CAH, but hardly anything on adults with mild form (which tends to be asymptomatic in young age, but start getting noticeable at ~40+). So, you may want to look into it.

 

Prior to spring of 2017,  23andme reported on about two dozen SNPs in CYP21A2, but the test we did with them in spring of 2017 did not include this gene at all. Maybe they are back to doing it now -? Anyway, knowing your DNA may shed light on this mystery.  

[Oakman]

Ganymede,  I'd encourage you to take the myDNAge test (free after $150 reimbursement from Longecity, if still available). Check out the thread on it here, and leave a post that you would like to be included. Your results should be instructive for both yourself and everyone.

[Ganymede]

Hey folks,

 

@xEva thanks for thinking of me with regards to the study. Going back to your previous post earlier this year, I've no idea if this is tied in anyway but I tend to get quite ill when I experience high levels of stress for prolonged period (hours). It's caused me to be quite adaptive and inventive with avoiding stress as a whole and led to trying to live a stress-free life.

 

@Oakman that link denies me permission to enter. Also I'm not in the USA.

 

 

[Oakman]

Hey folks,

 

@xEva thanks for thinking of me with regards to the study. Going back to your previous post earlier this year, I've no idea if this is tied in anyway but I tend to get quite ill when I experience high levels of stress for prolonged period (hours). It's caused me to be quite adaptive and inventive with avoiding stress as a whole and led to trying to live a stress-free life.

 

@Oakman that link denies me permission to enter. Also I'm not in the USA.

 

Opps! Perhaps you need to be a "member" of Longecity to participate? PM Caliban to find out for sure.

[xEva]

yes, membership is required (and so many of us joined this year ) but it could be had for $25 and then the test is free ($150 is reimbursed after you share your results). And they have a lab in Germany too, not just the US, and  that's where the participants from the EU sent their samples. 

 

the symptoms you describe sounds like you may have this enzyme deficiency  (especially if you also often crave salt -- the same enzyme also 'makes' aldosterone, which regulates Na and K). You may need to supplement cortisol when very stressed, but this should be managed by an endocrinologist of course. 

 

From what I've read, there is no point to go to a non-specialist in this matter. The authors of these two articles are from the UK. Even  though one paper is of 2001 and another, 2010, the centers were these docs worked may be still there. Look for author information in these articles:

 

Serum Cortisol and 17-Hydroxyprogesterone Interrelation in Classic 21-Hydroxylase Deficiency: Is Current Replacement Therapy Satisfactory?

 

Health Status of Adults with Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia: A Cohort Study of 203 Patients