67 replies to this topic

[Madfern]

The main concern at this early stage is to promote a culture of objective testing/evidence.

 

I strongly suggest one company and one test to begin with. 

 

A good approach might be to negotiate a deal with one provider where LongeCity-referred people get a discount.

To encourage follow-up testing, the discount could start at the 2nd test.

 

FWIW, I am about to self-test 2 separate interventions over the next 4 months:

1. Dasatinib / Quercetin
2. Rapamycin

I would like to do 3 or 4 tests:

1. Base line
2. after Dasatinib / Quercetin
3. after a month or two on Rapamycin
4. after a year of Rapamycin.

The test offered by mydnage.com is expensive at US$299 each, and at that price I won't be able to afford 4 tests, but at half that, I would go for it.

[Mind]

 

The main concern at this early stage is to promote a culture of objective testing/evidence.

 

I strongly suggest one company and one test to begin with. 

 

A good approach might be to negotiate a deal with one provider where LongeCity-referred people get a discount.

To encourage follow-up testing, the discount could start at the 2nd test.

 

FWIW, I am about to self-test 2 separate interventions over the next 4 months:

1. Dasatinib / Quercetin
2. Rapamycin

I would like to do 3 or 4 tests:

1. Base line
2. after Dasatinib / Quercetin
3. after a month or two on Rapamycin
4. after a year of Rapamycin.

The test offered by mydnage.com is expensive at US$299 each, and at that price I won't be able to afford 4 tests, but at half that, I would go for it.

 

 

We hope to offer the initial test free for LongeCity members, and at a discount to others.

[Madfern]

 

 

The main concern at this early stage is to promote a culture of objective testing/evidence.

 

I strongly suggest one company and one test to begin with. 

 

A good approach might be to negotiate a deal with one provider where LongeCity-referred people get a discount.

To encourage follow-up testing, the discount could start at the 2nd test.

...

 

The test offered by mydnage.com is expensive at US$299 each, and at that price I won't be able to afford 4 tests, but at half that, I would go for it.

 

We hope to offer the initial test free for LongeCity members, and at a discount to others.

 

Yes,  I read your proposal at the start of the thread and I am fully supportive of that.

 

Can you give us an indication of the time frame we might be looking at?

If I happen to go ahead earlier, would I be able to take advantage of the free test for a follow up?

[Mind]

 

 

 

The main concern at this early stage is to promote a culture of objective testing/evidence.

 

I strongly suggest one company and one test to begin with. 

 

A good approach might be to negotiate a deal with one provider where LongeCity-referred people get a discount.

To encourage follow-up testing, the discount could start at the 2nd test.

...

 

The test offered by mydnage.com is expensive at US$299 each, and at that price I won't be able to afford 4 tests, but at half that, I would go for it.

 

We hope to offer the initial test free for LongeCity members, and at a discount to others.

 

Yes,  I read your proposal at the start of the thread and I am fully supportive of that.

 

Can you give us an indication of the time frame we might be looking at?

If I happen to go ahead earlier, would I be able to take advantage of the free test for a follow up?

 

 

Hoping to start getting people tested around the end of March or early April, and have all of the data together before September.

[Adam Karlovsky]

What are your thoughts on telomere length tests?

[Mind]

What are your thoughts on telomere length tests?

 

 

Nothing is set in stone, no test is guaranteed right now, but I want to keep it simple to start, and that is why I am pushing for DNA Methylation. This test is the most relevant, simple and inexpensive, as far as I can tell. We already have contacts with a couple of DNA Methylation testing companies that are supportive of the LongeCity mission.

[Mind]

Also, for simplicity, I would want a urine or saliva test.

 

No blood tests...too complicated

[YOLF]

Also, for simplicity, I would want a urine or saliva test.

 

No blood tests...too complicated

Are you sure? AFAIK, you can get the blood taken at any labcorp or quest diagnostics etc. and they will send the sample wherever you tell them to. It could be more complicated if you're sending the tests to a an academic lab instead of a medical facility, but I'm most inclined to think that any resistance from a lab to ship to an academic lab is more a matter of sales or know how than anything else they might say.

[QuestforLife]

Agree with Yolf, Zymo do a finger prick blood test or urine, both can be done by post, and the blood one is more accurate.

Whether or not I take part or am chosen to take these tests, I am willing to share my past and future Zymo test results with this project.

[serengetilion]

I'm just now seeing this and wanted to ask if you have enough volunteers cause I'd love to if you don't. I don't mind being identified as who I am. Thanks

[serengetilion]

I'd like to volunteer for the testing if you have a spot for me and I have no problem with being identified. Thanks

[ceridwen]

I would like to be tested too but I could also let you have some previous biomarkers since my illness started

[Mind]

Thanks for listing yourself as potential test subjects. Good to know there is interest. At this early stage, we cannot guarantee who will and will not be part of the free testing, but those in this thread will be noted.

[serengetilion]

Thank you that's great.

[sthira]

8-oxodGsn and 8-oxoGsn can be easily measured by UPLC-MS/MS. Urinary 8-oxoGsn may be a potential biomarker to determine a person's physiologic age and identify individuals at high risk of developing age-associated disease.

Front. Aging Neurosci. doi:
https://doi.org/10.3...nagi.2018.00034

[Steve H]

DNA methylation is currently the gold standard for aging biomarkers, though I can think of plenty of good ones to include in a panel. I would start with DNAm testing which requires an illumina assay and the freely available software from Hovarth at UCLA. You can also employ a lab to test it for you.

 

I very much support the idea of applying a rigorous scientific method to biohacking so I will keep an eye on developments here. 

[Mind]

Just to update everyone. The project is a go. Grant money has been allocated.

 

I just want to re-iterate the plan here.

 

1. Keep it simple in order make it easier to complete this pilot study. One vendor. One test.

2. Members only. This is a perk for LongeCity members. They have spent their hard-earned money to support the organization and this is one of the benefits. If you are not a member but you still want to contribute in some manner, contact me by forum message.

3. You can remain anonymous.

 

We just need to select the vendor and develop a data handling plan.

[Mind]

In reference to the Community Testing of Aging Bio-Markers program coming up soon, I wanted to discuss what potential additional information can be discovered about our efforts by having a questionnaire concurrent the DNAm test.

 

Just a reminder that this will be a small pilot study (hopefully up to 40 paricipants), so it might be difficult to find statisical significance in the results

Without a questionnaire, we will be doing a simple comparison of DNA methylation of LongeCity Members to the general population (the Horvath DNA methylation predictor of biological age).

 

Previously I had suggested a very general questionnaire to accompany the test, asking participants to rank their anti-aging strategy from 1 to 4: Diet, Exercise, Supplements, Other

 

Mt feeling is that making it any more complicated by having participants list specific supplements they take the different diets they engage in, would be too difficult an exercise and have very little chance of finding anything of significance, since there is no known substance or intervention that reduces the rate of aging by more than a small percentage (in humans)

 

Even just having people rank the 4 items previously mentioned is unlikely to reveal anything significant since genetics play a crucial role and the ranking is subjective.

 

Another possible question that could be asked of participants is how long it has been since they made a conscious decision to engaging in anti-aging activities. If any of the interventions "work" then perhaps there will be "better" results from those who have been at it longer.

 

What do you think? Any different suggestions? If anyone is familiar with epidemiological-type studies such as this please share your knowledge. I don't want to bog things down with something complicated. Based on past experience, people are more likely to follow through and complete an activity when it is easy. 

 

Maybe we skip the questionnaire in the beginning, and then have people fill in lifestyle factors or their anti-aging strategies later.

 

Also remember that even if the testing does not reveal any difference from the general population, we still learn something - that all of our current efforts are a waste of time and money  are not doing much (changing DNAm in a measurable way). And, we instill a very important culture of objective testing, which will be crucial gong forward as more anti-aging therapies arrive on the scene.

Edited by Mind, 16 April 2018 - 08:36 PM.

[serengetilion]

Its been a few weeks, wondering what the status is? Thanks in advance.

[Mind]

Just laying the groundwork and hashing out some of the details, like how to handle participants who want to remain anonymous. Which vendor to use. What type of questions, if any, we would want to ask, and whether or not it is necessary to have a questionnaire ahead of time or after the results are in.

[Madfern]

2. We aim to offer this as a member benefit and to engage other communities such as the calorie restriction society.

 

I am still on the the calorie restriction society mailing lists (CR and CRCOMMUNIY).

The only person who still posts to those lists is Al Pater.  There have been no posts from any other person for at least a year.

 

As for what question to ask from self-experimenters:

I suggest anything quantifiable like blood test results that they are prepared to share.  Before and after values of standard tests like FBE and fasting insulin, U&E, LFT, CRP would be of interest I think.

 

Some method to support anonymously sharing might get more data.

Edited by Manfred B, 22 April 2018 - 01:03 AM.

[Mind]

Members can now indicate their interest in the program here: https://www.longecit...esting-support/

[ceridwen]

I am going to go on Rapamycin. Maybe it would be a good idea to get biometrics before and after and whether it helps SCI could also be ascertained as I think I am at that stage. I have noticed huge differences internally and the way I see the world. Sometimes I worry that too much damage has been done to my consciousness to be able to correct it.
I have biomarkers from 2017 and if you could help me to take some once Rapamycin is a routine that would be great.

[Chrys]

8-oxodGsn and 8-oxoGsn can be easily measured by UPLC-MS/MS. Urinary 8-oxoGsn may be a potential biomarker to determine a person's physiologic age and identify individuals at high risk of developing age-associated disease.

Front. Aging Neurosci. doi:
https://doi.org/10.3...nagi.2018.00034

 

Is UPLC-MS/MS commercially available (in the U.S.) for testing urinary 8-oxoGsn?

[albedo]

Any usage made by the LC members of the Phenotypic Age and DNAm Pheno Age of the new Levine's and Horvath's clock? Based on clinical biomarkers it can also track interventions. See also here: https://www.longecit...ndpost&p=862525

[QuestforLife]

Any usage made by the LC members of the Phenotypic Age and DNAm Pheno Age of the new Levine's and Horvath's clock? Based on clinical biomarkers it can also track interventions. See also here: https://www.longecit...ndpost&p=862525

Is it commercially available?

[albedo]

Is it commercially available?

 

Not that I know.
 

[male_1978]

Is there a dna methylation test or another biological age test available in Europe? I would be interested in this (i took resveratrol for 15 years and seem to look much younger than others), depending on its cost of course. 

[Mind]

Is there a dna methylation test or another biological age test available in Europe? I would be interested in this (i took resveratrol for 15 years and seem to look much younger than others), depending on its cost of course. 

 

The initiative is now closed for this year. We hope to fund another round of testing next year. We will keep you in mind. This is designed as a member benefit, so you will likely have to be a member to partake in free or reduced cost testing next year. Membership starts at $25/year.

[male_1978]

I would pay for myself if the price is somewhat reasonable. Are there european companies which can be recommended?

 

Btw i do think that also tests which are not " double blind and placebo controlled" help, because they can give us a hint where to look.