12 replies to this topic

[jack black]

I did a whole life inventory recently and discovered that i am/was most happy when in love. Not just in love to persons (that's obviously the strongest effect), but also to ideas, work, project, groups, etc. Those periods lifted my life long depressive like states (dysthymia?) and made me happy, funny, creative, social, motivated to do things i can't do while depressed, etc. I'm almost like a completely different person, this is probably what normal should be. the only side effects i noticed is being more impulsive, seeking instant gratification, and harder to concentrate at work, and easier to make small mistakes while typing, etc.

 

now, let me be completely clear, this is not about sex. this is purely about platonic love.

 

i googled some this AM and came across this helpful description here: http://www.youramazi...sciencelove.htm

 

the phase of love i'm talking about is called attraction i guess:

 

 

Stage 2: Attraction

This is the amazing time when you are truly love-struck and can think of little else. Scientists think that three main neurotransmitters are involved in this stage; adrenaline, dopamine and serotonin.

 

Adrenaline

The initial stages of falling for someone activates your stress response, increasing your blood levels of adrenalin and cortisol. This has the charming effect that when you unexpectedly bump into your new love, you start to sweat, your heart races and your mouth goes dry.

 

Dopamine

Helen Fisher asked newly ‘love struck’ couples to have their brains examined and discovered they have high levels of the neurotransmitter dopamine. This chemical stimulates ‘desire and reward’ by triggering an intense rush of pleasure. It has the same effect on the brain as taking cocaine!

 

Fisher suggests “couples often show the signs of surging dopamine: increased energy, less need for sleep or food, focused attention and exquisite delight in smallest details of this novel relationship” .

 

 

Serotonin

And finally, serotonin. One of love's most important chemicals that may explain why when you’re falling in love, your new lover keeps popping into your thoughts.

 

the part about serotonin is not obvious to me because they later say:

 

 

A landmark experiment in Pisa, Italy showed that early love (the attraction phase) really changes the way you think.

 

 

Dr Donatella Marazziti, a psychiatrist at the University of Pisa advertised for twenty couples who'd been madly in love for less than six months. She wanted to see if the brain mechanisms that cause you to constantly think about your lover, were related to the brain mechanisms of Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder.

 

By analysing blood samples from the lovers, Dr Marazitti discovered that serotonin levels of new lovers were equivalent to the low serotonin levels of Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder patients.

 

Would that love stage mean release of adrenaline and dopamine while low serotonin?

 

Has anyone try to replicate those effects by meds?

 

Any other ideas?

 

BTW, as you probably can guess, i'm in love. A woman whom i briefly dated and cared about very long time ago (we are talking a few decades ago; it was purely platonic, no hugs, no kisses, she was not interested in a relationship at that time) wrote to me for help, and we are exchanging emails (she lives on the other side of the planet), and suddenly I discovered, i'm deeply in love in her again. This rapid, unexpected, and deep feeling made me realize this is exactly the treatment i need every day. not sure how much my significant other needs to know about it. the last time i had such a platonic thingy (but it was more locally), i was accused of cheating (that didn't really happen) and it almost ended up in a divorce.

 

PS, the article mentions a fascinating experiment:

 

 

And finally … how to fall in love

• Find a complete stranger.

• Reveal to each other intimate details about your lives for half an hour.

• Then, stare deeply into each other’s eyes without talking for four minutes.

 

York psychologist, Professor Arthur Arun, has been studying why people fall in love.

He asked his subjects to carry out the above 3 steps and found that many of his couples felt deeply attracted after the 34 minute experiment. Two of his subjects later got married.

 

LOL, not being a talkative type myself and not caring about small talk (noise) that's exactly what I would do during my dates early in my life and no wonder that i would explode in love, some of that still alive many decades later! The only thing is some girls were too chatty to fall for that.

Edited by jack black, 08 February 2018 - 04:59 PM.

[sant2060]

Sounds great. Too bad I'm all fcked up in that regards.

Never truly loved anything or anybody.

Not even my child.

I mean, I LIKE her...sometimes, briefly, I could say what I feel for her is some kind of love. But never deeply, passionately...you now, unconditionally, blah...

 

Same with relationships. Or friends. Projects, ideas. There IS a brief moment of passion...for projects, during my good times like one afternoon of passion, maybe day, two, maximum three. And then I'm back to being indiferent and bored.

 

Same with women. One week max, never deep enough, and back to being bored and just tolerating them.

 

Shit, its so fucked up. Mostly because I CAN feel a glympse now and then. And then its gone.

[YoungSchizo]

My downfall (getting schizophrenia) was because of love. My uprising (not completely getting rid of schizophrenia but I guess mainly chronic depression) would probably be love. ATM, I'm connecting with a girl, whereas normally I would drink today to lift up my depressed spirit, today, I opened up my first beer and after a couple of zips, I realize that I already feel kinda high/uplifted and don't need alcohol perse. Hmm..

[jack black]

I mean, I LIKE her...sometimes, briefly, I could say what I feel for her is some kind of love. But never deeply, passionately...you now, unconditionally, blah...

 

Same with relationships. Or friends. Projects, ideas. There IS a brief moment of passion...for projects, during my good times like one afternoon of passion, maybe day, two, maximum three. And then I'm back to being indiferent and bored.

 

Same with women. One week max, never deep enough, and back to being bored and just tolerating them.

 

Shit, its so fucked up. Mostly because I CAN feel a glympse now and then. And then its gone.

 

as you remember from the link i posted, the euphoria of attraction phase is self limiting. i suspect it lasts longer if not consummated right away. either way, the attachment phase should happen before attraction phase expires and here is where relationships fail. same with me, i went through a slew of failed relationships, and even my marriage was on the rocks for these reasons. Now, I bonded and attached, but it took a long time.

 

alternatively, maybe your dopaminergic system is all weak or burned out? maybe it works only for people with mild/borderline depression or bipolar?

 

My downfall (getting schizophrenia) was because of love.

 

are you saying dopamine from attraction pushed you over an edge?
 

Edited by jack black, 08 February 2018 - 10:49 PM.

[YoungSchizo]

 

My downfall (getting schizophrenia) was because of love.

 

are you saying dopamine from attraction pushed you over an edge?
 

 

 

Yes, although it was way more complicated than a "simple" dopamine rush what I felt, there were clearly much more factors playing it's role that got me go over the edge (and I guess "normal" people who fell in love with the wrong person can relate).

I'm not a young adult anymore and being down the road of schizophrenia for 12 years.. And falling in love multiple times after the first incident that pushed me over the edge, I (also) luckily somewhat have found insight into this dopamine rush what I feel when attracted to the opposite sex.

 

For me, like anyone else from the study you have posted (where two couples got married), it's the same for me. IDK if I should just pin this down to just a (simple) chemical reaction or something else, I just don't know. With the insight I gathered, psychology, biology, social factors, evolution, emotional values come all into play.

 

Anyway, my main point, being in love with whom could be the right one beats mental health issues. (If it's not schizophrenia, at least severe depression). 

[YoungSchizo]

Maybe we (depressed people) should snort potent Oxytocin as a regiment     

[hydrus]

I think love increases happiness sometimes dramatically, alcohol/street drugs can do this too but no one thinks  the latter could cure any illness.

 

I think it is a problem that mental illness is not viewed as physical illness. Love can make you happy can give you strength and hope when you have cancer but you will still die from it.

 

What I mean to say do not expect emotions to cure you they do not.

 

Distorted emotions are a symptom not the cause of a mental illness. You can not make any illness disappear by treating the symptoms alone.

 

Love is a potent way to change your mental state, sure but as much as people want it cure something it will not do this. 

 

Exercise can release powerful pain killing chemicals that can make you feel better but again I do not think it is a real treatment for an illness.

 

if you think love is what your life needs, great,get as much as you can but do not view it as a substitute for a treatment of an illness.

 

 

Edited by hydrus, 09 February 2018 - 09:16 PM.

[jack black]

hydrus,

 

i guess i didn't clarify that i didn't mean cure. if you read what i posted, the phase of attraction is limited time wise, but i found out from myself, if this is platonic, reciprocal, and reinforced by exchanging communication, collecting mementos, and thinking about the love subject, etc, it could last some good time.

 

it does interfere with work or study for sure though, but very pleasurable, except only thing, one feels very compulsive about contact, both physical and emotional, and it's no go in my case (except for imagination). none of the stimulants i tried had similar feelings and it's very natural.

 

another thing i found out such platonic love is still compatible with another mature relationship or makes it stronger, more passionable (if you keep it away from your main partner, possibly unethical) and there could be a few of those running parallel not being mutually exclusive.

 

as for exercise, it's actually highly recommended here every time someone asks for mental help. it doesn't work that well for myself (maybe long term, but not short term).

Edited by jack black, 09 February 2018 - 11:56 PM.

[jack black]

Rating this dangerous and irresponsible? 

Looks like I wasted my time.

ATTN: Admins, feel free to delete the whole thread.

[YoungSchizo]

Rating this dangerous and irresponsible?
Looks like I wasted my time.
ATTN: Admins, feel free to delete the whole thread.

The one who tagged this as irresponsible dangerous should explain herself/himself. You have a valid point in my opinion.

[hydrus]

anecdotally, when I had my worst phase of anhedonia/depression where I would not be able to fell anything positive or perhaps anything at all, I happened toget involved with a girl. I have to say that the depression pretty much killed most of that love feeling. It was still there but I was so numbed that most of it was lost. So at at time where I would not care about anything at all this was perhaps the only thing positive that was left in the world, where I could feel at least something. It was not that great though. I just felt it did not have a future anyway, and that it was easier to get by by having your emotions under control.  So at least in my experience, when the depression is really bad even falling in love does not do the job.

 

Sounds great. Too bad I'm all fcked up in that regards.
Never truly loved anything or anybody.
Not even my child.
I mean, I LIKE her...sometimes, briefly, I could say what I feel for her is some kind of love. But never deeply, passionately...you now, unconditionally, blah...
 
Same with relationships. Or friends. Projects, ideas. There IS a brief moment of passion...for projects, during my good times like one afternoon of passion, maybe day, two, maximum three. And then I'm back to being indiferent and bored.
 
Same with women. One week max, never deep enough, and back to being bored and just tolerating them.
 
Shit, its so fucked up. Mostly because I CAN feel a glympse now and then. And then its gone.

 
 
lol, this one was rated as dangerous,irresponsible too

Edited by hydrus, 11 February 2018 - 10:15 AM.

[BioHacker=Life]

I would be curious to see a double blind placebo controlled study with a sexbot.

Edited by BioHacker=Life, 24 February 2018 - 06:44 AM.

[kurdishfella]

You have to be in love with right person if they are ugly then you will start to taking up the same characteristic if possible over time.

Edited by kurdishfella, 14 June 2022 - 10:53 PM.